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| Who Is Gog? | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 8 2009, 08:24 PM (203 Views) | |
| Stephen | Nov 8 2009, 08:24 PM Post #1 |
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Ezekiel 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him + The Lord addresses "gog" in Ezekiel 38 and 39 with respect to Israel's return to the land of Israel at the end of this current age. The vision begins by addressing satan and his early involvement with the post flood inhabitants of the land area of Magog, son of Japheth, and his brothers. [Genesis 10:1-2] Careful study of Ezekiel's vision and other related scriptures are necessary in order to identify gog [satan] and his involvement with humanity over a very broad time frame. This includes his connection to both the spirit world, human kings, and the human organizations contained within the dominions of the human kings and their kingdoms. There are some identifiers and other links to be considered which will lead to the realization that gog is not human. This entity has angelic characteristics which can be determined by studying the identifiers and the links given in scripture. Gog is identified by other biblical prophets as being connected with different human rulers, in different geographical areas, at different times, over periods which exceed the limitations of human life span. [Ezekiel 38:17] The Lord's angelic creatures do not age and are the same today as they were at their creation in the beginning. This angelic trait allows for perpetual involvement over vast time periods. [Job 38:4-7; Ezekiel 28:11-19; Revelation 20:1-3] He notes that gog is a subject of many of the prophets, yet he is referred to as "gog" in only one other place in scripture in the book of Revelation. This must mean that he is identified by different profiles and agencies in the visions of the other prophets. [Ezekiel 38:17] All other references refer to him or his agents by some other name or title. For example, Daniel sees the prince that is to come (Abaddon-Apollyon) in the little horn (a human king). Both of these entities will be empowered and directed by satan. {Daniel 7:7; 8:9-12; 8:25-25; 11:36-45; 12:7; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 17:8] Gog is described as the chief angelic prince, in this case, of Mesheck and Tubal [the early post flood settlements of Magog's brothers. The term "prince" is usually applied to an angelic ruler in prophetic scripture who rules over, influences, and operates through human kings [horns]. [Ezekiel 38:2] The term "chief prince" indicates that gog is the ruler or leader of others of the same kind. The Hebrew word "rosh" used for chief is not in reference to "Russia" as some teach, but should be translated as "chief" or "head" prince. The title of "prince" is revealed to Daniel in describing angelic activity related to the archangel Michael's battle against the opposing forces of the princes of Persia and of Grecia. [Daniel 10:13-20] The title of prince is used by the Lord when addressing the human king of Tyre. The message goes beyond the king to another entity who apparently has interaction and control over the king. [Ezekiel 28:11-19] Isaiah contains references addressed to the prince of Babylon and to Lucifer. These are descriptions of satan's existence as an angelic being and his connection with humanity. [Isaiah 14:12-17] Another angelic prince that "shall come" will be revealed at the end of this age during Israel's 70th week [the tribulation period of the Lord's coming judgment]. Daniel contrasts this entity with the Lord, the Messiah, the Prince that was "cut off". [Daniel 9:26-27] This prince will stand against (oppose) the Prince of Princes, who is the Lord Jesus Christ. The result of the conflict will be the destruction of this prince [first beast of Revelation] in the lake of fire at Armageddon. [Revelation 19:20] Other references to satan and his agents in the visions of the prophets include the Assyrian, prince of Persia, prince of Grecia, the beast, Abaddon-Apollyon, king of the abyss, the destroyer, man of lawless, and son of perdition. [Micah 5; Daniel 10; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1, 17:8; 2Thessalonians 2:3-12] Satan plays the role of "chief prince" when his angelic agents are functional. He is the power behind them as they do his bidding on the earth in relation to the influence and control of human kings and their dominions. [Ezekiel 38:2; Revelation 12:3-12; 13:1-2; 17:8] Abaddon-Appolyon is satan's (gog's) angelic agent for all seven heads (human dominions, kingdoms) as they are defined in Revelation 13 and 17. He is the beast from the abyss .... the first beast of Revelation. It is clearly stated that this "beast" [Abaddon-Apollyon] has seven heads [kingdoms]. Five have fallen (are historical), and the other two will exist in sequence during the 70th week decreed for Israel ... the Lord's hour of trial and the time of "Jacob's trouble". [Jeremiah 30; Revelation 3:10; 17:7-13] Abaddon-Apollyon's connection with the seven human king "positions" is limited to influence and control. He is "of the seven" and is connected with all of them. This limitation will change when the Lord allows him to become the eighth king himself by an actual incarnation. This is the "lie" and strong delusion that the Lord will send against an unbelieving world [2Thessalonians 2]. It will occur during the little horn's [human king's] rule in the seventh king "position". "Of the seven" can also be translated "of the seventh" which more specifically describes Abaddon-Apollton's connection with the little horn at the time of the end]. [Revelation 17:11] He will then become the 8th king himself. This manifestation will be exceptionally unique to humans who experience his presence. [2Thessalonians 2:3-12] The little horn will expand his sixth Middle Eastern dominion toward the south, the east, and toward Israel by forming alliances and by conquest. [Daniel 8:9; 8:23-25; 11:36-44] He will be occupying the seventh king position of his seventh dominion when Abaddon-Apollyon becomes the eighth king himself by incarnating [possessing] the little horn. [Revelation 17:11] Abaddon-Apollyon will rule directly as an angelic king over most of the Middle East for a 42 month period [1,260 days] which will occur during the last half of the 70th week decreed for Israel. [Daniel 11:36-45; 12:7] He will be destroyed by the Lord in the lake of fire at the end of the next 30 day period, and satan will captured be sent to the abyss for 1,000 years. [Revelation 19:20, 20:1-3] Revelation 20 also records satan's future release after the 1,000 years and his attempt to deceive the nations once more. He is referred to as gog again, and all of the nations involved are referred to symbolically as Magog. [Revelation 20:7-10] The Lord addresses satan as gog in Ezekiel and Revelation because of his early connections with the inhabitants of the land of Magog shortly after the flood. The focus of Bible prophecy presents the view of satan's activities specifically in the northern regions of the Middle East [upper Tigris River basin]. [Ezekiel 38:15; Micah 5] I believe this is because of the area's position in relation to Eden, Mount Ararat, and its northern interface with the land of Israel. The larger land areas of the early habitations of humans in the Middle East shortly after the flood are described in the Bible as the land of Egypt, the land of Canaan, the land of Magog, and the land of Shinar. These lands formed a crescent shape from the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf starting with the land of Egypt and ending with the and of Shinar [southern Babylonia] in clockwise order. The land of Israel was developed later which replaced part of the land of Canaan on the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean. The general area of the ancient land of Magog today includes parts of northeastern Syria, eastern Turkey, northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, and Armenia and Georgia. It is currently inhabited by a mixed group of original ethnic tribal ancestry plus genetic lineage from the other land areas of the Middle East. The current populations located in the original ancient land of Magog are mainly Turkoman, Assyrian, Kurdish, Iranian (Medes and Persians), and Arab. The predominant religion is Islam. This common theology will have significance with regard to the coming end time events. This is the geographical area where satan's beast [Abaddon-Apollyon incarnated in the little horn] will arise to power in the Middle East at the beginning of the time of the end of this present age .... ten other kings will rise with him. [Daniel 7:19-20; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; Revelation 13:1, 17:12-18] Why does the Lord addressed satan as gog, connect him with the land of Magog, and identify him as the chief prince of Mesheck and Tubal? Why does the Lord call him out of his place in the northern Middle East to attack a regathered Israel in the land of Israel at the end of this age? The Lord has allowed satan to rule over this northern geographical area, from shortly after the flood and continuously through Greek rule just before the first century. The visions of the prophets indicate his presence in the same geographical area at the time of the end. Included are the original land of Magog, the Akkadian/Assyrian Empire, and the subsequent empires of neo-Babylon, Persia, and Grecia. All of these human dominions were centered in the ancient Middle East with connections to the northern area of the fertile crescent. This same area will be satan's base of operation at the time of the end. His human agents will come from his place out of the north, the ancient area of the land of Magog [northern Iraq], with the objective of gaining control of the Middle East and destroying the nation of Israel. Satan's strategy for this event will include Abaddon-Apollyon, the false prophet who will appear in the land of Israel, and the little horn who will become the human manifestation of Abaddon-Apollyon. The little horn is seen in the visions coming out of the northern division of Alexander's ancient divided empire at the time of the end. There is a breach in the visions from the ending of the ancient Syrio/Babylonian domination and the beginning of the little horn's appearence at the time of the end. He will expand his control over most of the Middle East.[Daniel 8:9-12, 8:23-25] The important identifier will be the location of his original base of operation at the time of the end, and not necessarily his ethnic origin. He does not have to be a direct descendant of Magog, although this is a possibility, but he must appear in the area of the ancient land of Magog. [Ezekiel 38, 39} Satan is the "chief angelic prince", as indicated in one of his former relationships with the ancient trading centers of Mesheck and Tubal. Magog's younger brothers were the founders of these two early and prominent commercial centers of trade.[Ezekiel 27:13; 38:2] The Lord addresses satan as gog in Ezekiel 38 and satan is called gog again in Revelation 20. The ancient land of Magog in the Middle East has been and will be satan's point of origin and focus upon the earth at the time of the end. |
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Stephen http://www.prophecy1.blogspot.com | |
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| Light House | Nov 9 2009, 02:22 AM Post #2 |
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----First this thread probably needs moved to Bible discussion-----(in my opinion) I would like to say I find this interesting I have been doing a study comparison on Ez 38 and Gen 10 "Why does the Lord addressed satan as gog, connect him with the land of Magog, and identify him as the chief prince of Mesheck and Tubal? Why does the Lord call him out of his place in the northern Middle East to attack a regathered Israel in the land of Israel at the end of this age?" quote Stephen Gog is the Anti-Christ / Prince....Course there's varying thoughts on this rather if it's a person/s or even a Country. It's been my understanding that Gog is the Prince/ King of Magog (Gen 10:2 Japeth's son Magog who settled in what we know as modern day RUSSIA) Magog was also a general name given to country north of the Caucasus mountains between the Black and Caspian seas.... and also Meshech is also inhabits modern day Russia they were of the Muscovite tribe. There is no clear understanding of "GOG" in Ezekiel it's a reference what would be a king/prince/place and in I Chron 5:4 referred to as a son. " The sons of Jowl, Shenaiah his son Gog his son Shimei"... If you go back to Gen 10 to Japeth Children...(son of Noah) research where all his children landed....it's interesting....here's a good old map if someone needs a visual..  If you notice the PINK areas are were sons of Japhet settled over time.....Europe, Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Syria, ..SHEM (green).Iran and Iraq..HAM (yellow)..Egypt, Sudan,Ethiopia, Somalia.......EBER (blue)....Saudi Arabia, Yemen. http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/the-world-as-known-to-the-hebrews.html The Lord addresses satan as gog in Ezekiel 38 and satan is called gog again in Revelation 20. The ancient land of Magog in the Middle East has been and will be satan's point of origin and focus upon the earth at the time of the end. I first don't see the middle east as part of Magog if you follow JAPHETH children and where they settled (i suppose it would depend if they are one in the same too from Gen 10, Ez 38, and Rev 20) Maybe I missed your point or missed this all together. Your second question I really don't understand the phrasing of this...... "Why does the Lord call him out of his place in the northern Middle East to attack a regathered Israel in the land of Israel at the end of this age?" |
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| Stephen | Nov 9 2009, 07:10 AM Post #3 |
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LH, Briefly .... Satan is not the "anti-christ" He is the one addressed as "gog" [Ezekiel 38:17] He uses angelic and human agents to do his bidding on the earth [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 17:8; 2Thessalonians 2:3] This entity will be Abaddon-Apollyon in the shell of the human little horn, king of the northern Middle East [Daniel 8:9-23; 11:36-45; 12:7] A number of human kingdoms have ruled over the land of Magog in the Middle East and the scriptures confirm .... Magog and his brothers, the Assyrians [northern Babylonians] the Chaldeans [southern Babylonians], the Persians, the Greeks .... these 5 kingdoms of satan's beast have all fallen .... there are two more scheduled in the scope of Bible prophecy .... the one that "is", and the next [Revelation 17:8] Ezekiel's vision is essentially a prophecy revealing the Lord's dealing with satan and Israel during His coming hour [time] of trial and judgment The invasion of Israel will come at the middle of the 70th week decreed for Israel [Daniel 9:24-27] .... the little horn will then rule for 42 months [Revelation 11:2; 13:4-5] .... and then defeated by the Lord at Armageddon [Revelation 16:1-16] Satan is the one addressed in Ezekiel 38 [Ezekiel 38:17] It is the "land area" of Magog's ancient post flood settlements in view .... not further migrations of Magog's descendants out of the Middle East The human little horn is called the "Assyrian" [Micah 5] He will appear in the northern Middle east at the time of the end [Daniel 7:8; 8:9; 11:36-45; 12:7] |
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Stephen http://www.prophecy1.blogspot.com | |
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| bob-bob-bob | Nov 9 2009, 06:27 PM Post #4 |
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Hal Lindsey in his book " Late Great Planet Earth " identifyed the countrys of Gog as: RUSSIA and Magog as : CHINA . As far as I remember the book he made no mention of Gog or Magog as persons . His reason was that Gog was to Israel's north and the only powerful nation to Israel's north is Russia . And Magog is to Israel's east and that of course is China. I tend to beleave Mr. Lindsey, his studys of end time scriptures have been on going for many years . IMO |
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| Stephen | Nov 9 2009, 09:37 PM Post #5 |
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Bob, Hal and I graduated from the same DTS I do not agree with his older predictions and interpretation of Ezekiel 38, but I do consider him to be an excellent Bible teacher on many other subjects You will see soon that his position is changing today as he now believes that it is the Islamic Middle East that will produce the little horn of Daniel's visions This is the correct rendering of the prophetic scriptures and it is becoming more apparent as we move closer to the time of the end The nations in view are those surrounding Israel in the Middle East proper One must also know that the little horn's followers will worship him as a god .... these Islamic inhabitants of the Middle East would never worship a Russian as a god |
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Stephen http://www.prophecy1.blogspot.com | |
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| Light House | Nov 9 2009, 11:24 PM Post #6 |
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First I agree with BOB on Magog and Russia. Thru my research and 25 years in my walk with the Lord I can't in good faith follow all that you are trying to convey or teach. My flesh does not want to end this debate .....But my DISCERNMENT says go no further with this..... I add this after reading some of your other posts....I say this because I am prompted in my spirit to do so......Be clear about what you speak, Don't speak in circles and create lines that do not or can not be, Be correct in quoting and use of the word.....Seek the Lord for council, understanding, and guidance. Blessings. Edited by Light House, Nov 9 2009, 11:52 PM.
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| TwilightRose | Nov 10 2009, 12:12 AM Post #7 |
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Amen LH. 
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| bob-bob-bob | Nov 10 2009, 03:53 AM Post #8 |
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Thank You Lighthouse & Twilightrose , I wrote my post with some reluctance , I had to dwell on what I had read and finally the words just came out . Stephen , I must point out that Mr. Lindsey has RARELY if ever changed his opinion or position on a subject he has written , IF he does on this particular issue then I of course will consider his new view in this subject. BUT, (BIG BUT!!) until then I will keep my current opinion on this issue. Yours in Christ...Bob-Bob-Bob |
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| Israeli | Nov 10 2009, 04:09 AM Post #9 |
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Stephen, I think you are SPOT ON. Sorry gang, I totally agree with Stephen. I LOVE Hal Lindsey, it is because of him I came to know that Israel is God's time piece when I as a new believer I had NO knowledge of Israel. I became a Zionist because of The Late Great Planet Earth. I have over the years because of my own walk with God, spiritual and biblical understanding of Israel and the Jewish people, come to the conclusion that Pastor Lindsey may be indeed wrong. But he set us all on a correct course. He is one of a very small handful of pastors who understand Israel. I salute the man and am grateful to all he has done for us. But, I have been beginning to see EXACTLY what Stephen has been saying myself as I dwell here in Israel. Jews would NEVER bow down to a Russian, neither would Muslims. They WOULD however, possibly be very taken by Muslim who recognizes Israel's right to exist, makes a real peace here between Arabs and Jews. And, an angelic being would be able to pull off the supernatural allure. So, I also bear witness that Gog is an angelic being, according to scripture. The angelic host that was wiped out during the flood, were supposedly imprisoned at Mount Hermon in the northern parts of it in Lebanon, according to Enoch and the teaching by David Flynn at Watchers. This would tie in with Stephen's proposal of an angelic being from this region rising up, in agreement with D. Flynn. This is a very interesting and informative thread. Thanks to all of you. Good job Stephen and great rebutal Light House. |
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| Israeli | Nov 10 2009, 05:29 AM Post #10 |
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One other point, I had a prob with the "ROSH" being Russia idea, once I understood that "rosh" means "head" in Hebrew. So, again, Stephen may be onto something quite right here. Also, in light of Stephen's discussion of Gog and Magog, this came to my mind: Space between Syria, Iran, Turkey important to rearrange balance of power Politics 11/10/2009 12:52:00 AM www.kuna.net.kw DAMASCUS, Nov 9 (KUNA) -- Assistant Syrian Vice President General Hassan Turkmani said on Monday that the space comprising Syria, Turkey and Iran is important in rearranging the balance of power, alliances and regional blocs. Turkmani, speaking to the Syrian satellite channel, said "this space or the coalition is very important at the political, economic and defense level." He added that "the vision of President (Bashar) Al-Assad to this space would eventually lead to the establishment of a Middle East built by the efforts of its sons and on the historical and cultural seeds as well as knowledge of the affairs of the region". He pointed out that Syria, Iran and Turkey are the cornerstone of a new Middle East and creates a new balance in the region. He said, "This space can be exploited and would be an example and may attract many countries and Arab countries, such as Armenia and Azerbaijan". (end) Edited by Israeli, Nov 10 2009, 05:42 AM.
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| Stephen | Nov 10 2009, 07:45 AM Post #11 |
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Israeli said, "But he set us all on a correct course. He is one of a very small handful of pastors who understand Israel. I salute the man and am grateful to all he has done for us" >Hal has done this and he is a great Bible teacher >We must watch the Middle East today and compare against the backdrop of the prophetic scriptures >National Israel has returned to the land in part to experience the time of Jacob's trouble, the 70th week decreed, and this is the Lord's drawing for setting the stage ..... we are very close >Israel and the nation's adjacent ancient enemies are placed directly in the scope of the prophecies soon to be fulfilled [Psalms 83; Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 36; 38; Daniel 9; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5] Edited by Stephen, Nov 10 2009, 12:09 PM.
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Stephen http://www.prophecy1.blogspot.com | |
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| lightningrod | Nov 12 2009, 10:57 AM Post #12 |
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Russia is gog and magog America is Babylon |
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http://www.demongov.com/ubbthreads/ The governments of this world are all demon possessed entities | |
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