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| When God is Late (plus 'Watch the Middle East') | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 18 2008, 12:20 AM (343 Views) | |
| Wil | Aug 18 2008, 12:20 AM Post #1 |
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---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mario Liu <mario.liu7@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 1:19 AM Subject: [StormHarvest] R Holmes: When God is Late (plus 'Watch the Middle East') To: stormharvest@associate.com Dear friends, I am sorry to hear the latest news concerning Todd Bentley (ref http://www.freshfire.ca/ ). We should all pray for this brother and his family. On the morning of 28 June 2008 while praying with Robert the Lord whispered to him more than four times, 'Keep your eyes on the Middle East.' Since God told us at the beginning of 2008 that there will be another Middle East war, I shared this on the List under the heading 'Troubles Ahead?' Actually another message we received from the Lord that morning was 'Watch Saudi Arabia gouge the oil price.' In those days the price of oil was rising rapidly and many countries' economies were severely stressed. Recently the oil price has dropped and the world's attention is drawn somewhere else. I just wonder whether this drop in oil prices is due to some actions by Saudi Arabia. On Wednesday 13 August 2008 at 2:30pm Robert and I were praying together and the Lord told us several things. I will share two of these below: 1. We asked God why certain prophecies did not come to pass – did we heard God's instructions wrongly or has God changed His mind. God told us "Many are called and few are chosen. Even fewer will obey." I sensed God's displeasure in this. Currently I am examining my own heart to examine my disobedience towards God – it is easy to disobey God because His voice is soft and He usually asks me to do difficult things. 2. God said again "Keep your eyes on the Middle East." When Robert and I asked "How?" God said "Watch it." Since God repeated this instruction again, can I request each brother and sister on this List to seek God in prayer about this, and also to watch the Middle East? Please share your insights on the List. May the Lord bless us all. Mario Liu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When God is Late By Robert I Holmes What do you do when you experience delay? How do you respond when you have: - waited in line at a store - waited in a traffic jam - had a long delay waiting for a good meal - had your flight delayed Some people meekly accept it. Others get more and more frustrated. Sometimes there is an unexpected, costly delay involved in obeying God (such as waiting for healing). What if you have a promise from God (such as having children), and it does not come in the time frame you expect it? What if you have a dream (such as holding a certain position, or getting a promotion at work), which seems not to be coming to pass. What do you do when God is late? When His coming is not as sure as you first thought; when His promises are not coming to pass according to the timetable; when He misses the date and stands you up; when He does not quite come through as expected. I don't mean when you have acted in your own flesh, or listened to 'Jobs Counsellors' or when you have been deceived. I mean when you have a valid, bonafide promise from Him… Those who waited Mary waited for Jesus to come and heal their brother, knowing he loved them, and he was aware of the sickness… only to see him die. The delay tested Mary's love (John 11:2,3) and she became angry with Christ. Abraham experienced long delay over his promised son. The delay tested Abraham's faith and endurance (Hebrews 11:11). Sarah laughed and mocked God. Joseph had the dream of leadership in his family and a path strewn with hopeless defeat. The word tested Joseph in chains (Psalm 105:19). His feet were hurt with fetters. Jeremiah waited for his word to come to pass, in a stinking hole. Jeremiah ended up accusing God of being a deceitful brook (Jeremiah 15:18). What not to do Delay tests the flesh – it presses the internal areas of our lives. Anger, mocking, doubt, fear, pain, accusation… are normal responses to delay. There are however, some things we really should not do. There are other responses which are really harmful during our time of delay. 1. Don't make your own god! Aaron and the people were waiting for Moses to come down from the mountain with a word from God. God had already showed up, but He appeared slack in coming with the blessing of instruction. In the frustration of waiting, made their own god in the form of a golden calf (Exodus 32:4). They acted perversely (vs 7). They made a god in their own image – in the form they wanted to worship. They were quick to turn aside from the way God commanded them. Israel truly did know his acts, but Moses knew His ways (Psalm 103:7). They did not really know Him at all. Do not wander from God's ways. 2. Don't make your own offering. Saul was waiting on the hillside for Samuel to come and make sacrifice to God. He needed to adhere to right and godly order in the house, he was not qualified in God to offer up sacrifice. When God's servant appeared late in coming, not once but twice he bowed down to social pressure, and did the sacrifice himself (1 Samuel 13:9 & 1 Samuel 15:21). As a result, he was cursed, lost his kingdom and his anointing to lead. If God appears delayed in coming, don't bow to social pressure. Do not enter into rebellion. Risk the riot – risk people rising up against you. David did, when he decided to pay the men for waiting with the bags, Jesus did, when he told them he would not be crowned as king. 3. Don't make your own ministry. Abraham was tricked into trying his own fleshy method of fulfilling God's promise. His situation appeared hopeless. God had promised him children, but he was very old and weak. He appeared in the flesh to be unable to have children through his old and barren wife. So in the carnality of his flesh, he slept with Hagar (Genesis 16:3,4) and had an illegitimate son – Ishmael – who remains a curse to Israel to this day (Genesis 17:12). When God seems late in answering, wait for Him. Do not give in to your flesh. When Abraham came to offer Isaac at the mountain God said, "Bring me your son, your only son Isaac". Ishmael did not even exist before God, he was not a son. At the end all your works will be tested with fire, and your Ishmael's will not even exist anymore – they will be completely burned up. 4. Don't take someone else's inheritance. Jacob knew in his heart that Esau was the father's favoured son (Genesis 25:28) and fought to steal his brother's birthright. He lied and deceived to get the father's blessing under the guise of being his brother (Genesis 27:32). This is not the right way forward. If God appears late in blessing your circumstances, have patience. Do not lie and steal to get a blessing. 5. Don't get burned up and yell at God! Jeremiah waited fourty years for God to destroy Jerusalem like he had prophesied. Poor Jeremiah, in a fit of depression cried out, "LORD, you deceived me, and I was deceived ; you overpowered me and prevailed. I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me" (Jeremiah 20:7). He probably felt a bit like Jonah whose dire prophecies never came to pass. He accused God saying, "Truly, you are to me like a deceitful brook, like waters that fail" (Jeremiah 15:18). What to do 1. Remember his promises and his good works from the past. Make a good war according to the promises given to you in times past (1 Timothy 1:18). "Has his steadfast love ceased forever? Are his promises at an end for all time? Has God forgotten to be gracious?… I will call to mind the deeds of the LORD; I will remember your wonders of old. I will meditate on all your work, and muse on your mighty deeds" (Psalm 77:8-12). 2. Do you best in the circumstances. Joseph had some very great promises concerning his life and calling, yet he found himself in a pit, sold into slavery, thrown in jail and forgotten. The testimony regarding how Joseph carried himself in those years is clear, "Joseph became a successful man in the house of his Egyptian master" (Genesis 39:2-4). Even in jail, Joseph worked hard, "and showed him steadfast love; he gave him favour in the sight of the chief jailer" (Genesis 39:21). God prospered Joseph in every circumstance – even though they fell well short of the fulfilment of the promise. That was to come in the fullness of time! What God requires is that you work hard, and you are steadfast in your love. 3. If you got angry or upset with God, return to Him like Jeremiah. God offered Jeremiah the right hand of friendship. Though Jeremiah had accused him of being deceitful, he offered a way back for the backslidden and depressed prophet, "If you turn back, I will take you back, and you shall stand before me" (Jeremiah 15:19). Repentance is the shortest path back into God's will and good pleasure. He was able to say from then on, "The LORD is with me like a dread champion" (Jeremiah 20:11). 4. Seek first the kingdom. Jesus said we are not to worry about our needs, nor indeed about anything in this world, we are to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness (Matthew 6:25-33). We are to trust our heavenly Father in all things and let him take care of us and our needs. We are not to make Him keep his promises, or try to force his hand. We are to trust quietly in him, "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength" (Isaiah 30:15). Jesus told the disciples who were listening, "O you of little faith" why then do you worry. God is not sitting in heaven biting his nails wondering how he is going to pay for, feed or clothe you. If you are stressed, or anxious then something is wrong – with you.We need to be reminded that God is in control. He does not exist within time as we understand it. He is eternal. A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day to him (2 Peter 3:8). God is not slack "God is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward" (2 Peter 3:9 KJV). God is waiting for us, He is lining things up and very often it is our stubbornness, our slackness, our failure, our flesh, our lack of repentance that is holding things up. "The LORD is faithful to all his promises and loving toward all he has made" (Psalm 145:13). The Lord's character is to be trusted, He is in fact the only one to be trusted. If he does not come through on His word, no one can! God can not lie, he is not like a man. He is to be trusted. "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfil?" (Numbers 23:19)."For in him every one of God's promises is a "Yes." For this reason it is through him that we say the "Amen," to the glory of God."(2 Corinthians 1:20). Remember that in Christ all of God's promises concerning you are yes and amen. It is usually a matter of time. Let us acknowledge him in all our ways (Proverbs 3:6) and realise that His coming is sure. "Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear" (Hosea 6:3). ------------------------------ WEBSITE (Please note new web address) Storm-Harvest Ministries http://www.stormharvest.com.au/ MODERATORS (Please note new email address) Robert I Holmes and Mario Liu email mario.liu7@gmail.com To subscribe, send ANY message to: stormharvest-subscribe@associate.com ( Note - Please do not subscribe to Storm Harvest if you have an AOL email address - please register a free Gmail email address and subscribe using that address instead - AOL considers Storm Harvest as spam and emails may not work for these addresses.) |
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| SpiritIsWilling | Aug 18 2008, 12:31 AM Post #2 |
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Very good and timely post Wil 
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Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 
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| METHUSELAH | Aug 18 2008, 02:37 AM Post #3 |
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All of the above having been said, I still believe that when an individual imparts a specific date, place and event which he/she states with certainty that the Lord gave him and told him to share with the body of Christ, it is the person speaking forth who has missed the boat, not our Father or anyone else, when the matter in question fails to materialize. Accountability for specific and erroneous prophecies should be mandatory. I believe that the word Mario shared in the O.P. is not only a valid one; it is an obvious scriptural reference to be watchful of events in the Holy Land and to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. There is no conflict with general, biblical words that both encourage the church and help keep believers on track. The message concerning the intentional manipulation of oil prices by Saudi Arabia certainly falls into the realm of authenticty as the price of oil did skyrocket before it began to fall again and the Saudis are certainly instrumental in the process of setting oil prices. However anyone who states "The Rapture will occur in 2007" or that the "Big One" in CA will happen directly (shortly, immediately, within three days; whatever) after a given date (say May 31, 2008) and that event does not come to pass, the author of the extra-biblical prediction has the responsibility to acknowledge his error whether it occured in transmission, judgment or understanding, even if he isn't aware of exactly how he "missed". To continue speaking forth words that, once more, do not come to pass is a tacit admission that the individual(s) is in disobedience to the Lord and is doing fellow believers a disservice, rather than edifying the body. This is all the more true when the individual(s) is embroiled in all other manner of both spiritual and personal misbehavior. The Lord has given us the power of faith to believe that which he has ordained to happen. At the same time he has given his followers the gift of the Holy Spirit, spiritual discernment, basic human intelligence and common sense to know the difference between what is of Him and what cannot be. And yes, we should be in prayer for all who have fallen, as we all do. Keep in mind though that "To whom much is given, much is expected." This is my strongly held belief.  Edited by METHUSELAH, Aug 18 2008, 02:37 AM.
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| Forgive someone today! You'll both feel better... | |
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| Merton | Aug 18 2008, 03:29 AM Post #4 |
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God has never told me to watch the middle east for anything, but all of the prophets who praise flesh Israel keep saying that. God has told me to keep my eyes upon Him , not on the middle east, or on any nations. People have written so much on the history of the worldly church and on flesh Israel as if they mean something to God, while the same people do not know anything much about what God is doing in their own sphere of responsibility, if they have any before God. The Jerusalem of above is the apple of Gods eye, of which all born from above believers are citizens of, not the one on the earth. I discount that voice asking you to watch the Middle east as being from the Lord. Take note how those supposedly hearing from the dead hear things unclear--Isaiah 8:19. Whereas--Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. I have been through the voice thing, the demons thing, the burn up idols thing, and most everything else, and it all means nothing but a diversion from what the Lord wants to say and do, but it needs be gone through just to know the difference, and then move on. Merton. |
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| Wil | Aug 20 2008, 12:11 AM Post #5 |
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I think keeping our eyes on the middle east is a perfectly normal thing to be communicated by the Lord. It is after all the centerpiece of endtime events, and therefore a good marker for where we are prophetically. |
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| Merton | Aug 20 2008, 06:20 PM Post #6 |
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Will, Where does the NT advise saints to watch Jerusalem of the middle east. What event of the middle east in prophecy should saints look for to understand where we are in prophetic events. I can think of one that might be referred to, but if misunderstood would mean the believer was being trapped there and captured, because he ought to have seen it elsewhere to that of the middle east. So watching the middle east for any guidance is folly and all of the false prophets of the last century have been watching it for naught, and to spin a lie among the saints. This is why I understand any voice which speaks to the saints to watch the middle east is a spirit from below and not from above, but you can try and convince me otherwise. Merton. |
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| Lazarusty | Aug 20 2008, 07:59 PM Post #7 |
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Merton, you're being too pendantic. The word wasn't telling Mario to take his/her eyes of Jesus but simply making a general statement to keep watching for what happens in the middle east. Mario won't be staring at the middle east 24 hours a day in rivetting expectation to the exclusion of all else I'm sure.
Edited by Lazarusty, Aug 20 2008, 08:00 PM.
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| Check out my Wild Speculations thread! | |
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| Merton | Aug 20 2008, 11:29 PM Post #8 |
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I asked wil some questions. Merton. |
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| Wil | Aug 20 2008, 11:50 PM Post #9 |
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Laz is free to make comments also, and I agree with what he said. Merton looks like you're a replacement guy so I can understand your denouncement of anything that puts any importance on Israel however consider that Israel being reformed as a nation was not by chance and neither is the record of disasters that occur every time that the U.S. and others propose an agreement to give away part of the land. Also I am sure that you are aware that scripture says that all the nations of the world will come against Israel and that the Lord will make Jerusalem a stumbling block to the world. And of course Jesus will return on the Mount of Olives.
Edited by Wil, Aug 22 2008, 09:09 AM.
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| jewel4Christ | Aug 21 2008, 12:01 AM Post #10 |
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 .....  jewel |
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| Merton | Aug 21 2008, 07:01 PM Post #11 |
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Wil, I am a continuation of the elect Israel of God "guy." The watching of Israel of the flesh, which is not much of it, is of little use to Godliness. Israel of the middle east is the attempt by men who reject Jesus Christ to build their latter day kingdom which falsefies the Kingdom of God on earth to snare all flesh minded men both of the churches and of the world. Now you would regard your knowledge of scripture concerning prophecy as sufficient to be spiritually minded but unless Christ has given you understanding of the scriptures AFTER you have forsaken your own life in order to follow Him, then the only understanding that you can receive is the one that all of the world without Christ understands. So it is, that most all of the church is blind to the truth of the scriptures, and can not discern between imposters and the true, and regard a Christ rejecting state which worships self, money and the gun, to be a work of God. Neither can you discern just who the USA and western allies are in scripture, who are the Jews brothers, and are the endtimes "Germany" who will not be persecuting the Jews this time but will be destroying Christians, while you sit blindly by like the RCC in Hitlers early days giving the beasts your blessings . Blind leaders of the blind falling into the ditch together as the western media hide the truth about Georgia, when the west used the very same rule in Kosovo which they now condemn, and hide from the west that it was Georgia who killed the thousand people in south odessa, which Russia now protects. The west is doing the very thing to Russia that the west was so furious about Russia doing in Cuba. Fools fools and more fools, who support the very people who hate God and His Son Jesus Christ. Merton. |
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| Shershalom | Aug 21 2008, 08:14 PM Post #12 |
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Mr.Merton, Could you possibly explain all that from a BIBLICAL standpoint?? The post above definitely lost me and I need some scriptural input. Thanks. |
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SherShalom "Blessed is HE that comes in the NAME of the LORD." MATTHEW 23:39 | |
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| Wil | Aug 22 2008, 09:02 AM Post #13 |
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Regardless of scriptural evidence the utter arrogance displayed in the post has no place here. Contact me for re-instatement if you so desire when the Lord has convicted you of your unchristlike mindset Merton. |
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