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Biblical Interpretation Versus Allegorical Teachin
Topic Started: Aug 10 2008, 01:26 PM (71 Views)
Robert	Aug 10 2008, 01:26 PM Post #1
Member Posts: 61 Group: Members Member #4,713 Joined: May 30, 2008	This study has already been posted on the "Worldwide Christians Online" in a slightly longer version but I thought it might be of help here also. The resulting confusion of allegorical teaching had already begun centuries before the beginning of the present era and continued during the time the New Testament documents were being written. Consequently, most of the problems in the primitive church can be traced and attributed to the Hellenistic methods of allegorical teaching. First by the Jews, who adopted the Greek philosophical or parabolic method and applied it to the Hebrews’ Scriptures, and later passed into the present church primarily by the Gentile converts. We hear much about the allegorical interpretation of Scripture. Many astute men have correctly questioned the use of the word “interpretation” by those who use that method of teaching. When a statement is made in a setting that would indicate normal use and is said to be spoken philosophically, or parabolically, and given an allegorical meaning, that is not interpretation; that is unbelief. As such, the allegorical method of teaching should not be legitimized and glorified by speaking of it as a method of interpretation. To be precise, the parabolical or allegorical interpretation of any Scriptures must be strictly confined to Scriptures that are spoken in an unmistakable figurative or parabolic manner. The attempt to apply allegorical meaning to literal statements in truth is a denial of what God has said in preference for the desires and imagination of those who use such methods. Almost always when a discussion of the meaning of Scriptures arises we hear the remark: “but that’s your interpretation.” That is practically a statement that no Scriptures can be taken at face value. As if no Scriptures can be read and understood as normal statements of historical fact or words of instruction and guidance. It is freely admitted that the Scriptures abound with passages that have a secondary or even more meanings. An example is the rock in the wilderness that followed the Israelites. We are told by the apostle Paul (1 Cor. 10:4) “that rock was Christ,” i.e., a prefigure of Christ. Without doubt, Christ was referring to that same rock when He said that out of himself would flow rivers of living water (Jo. 7:38). He also said that He was the rock on which He would build His kingdom assembly (Matt. 16:18). Speaking of the manna that fell in the wilderness (Ex. 16:15 31), Christ said He was the bread that came down from heaven (Jo. 6:32). But that in no way denies or affects the historical truth of the actuality of events that took place there in the wilderness. A true allegory such as Paul points to in Gal. 4:23-25 takes real history and ordinary statements of fact, and assigns to them a secondary figurative meaning according to revelation given him by the Holy Spirit, but in no way denies the historical fact. A parable is to tell of things that did or did not happen to speak and point to a literal fulfillment. In the case of Hagar in the above Galatian passage, Hagar because she was a bondwoman was figuratively used by Paul to point to real bondage of the sinner under the Law. To interpret Scripture, if the statement made is of a symbolic nature, such as Rev. 14:1, “Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Sion,” we know the Lamb speaks of Christ. When a statement of fact is made of a historical event, or a literal statement of an event that is to happen in the future, many often deny that the original statement meant what it said; that is, that the event actually happened, therefore, it must be given a “spiritual interpretation.” What they perceive as truth according to their method is not an interpretation, but a substitution of their worldly wisdom (1 Cor. 1:3:18-20) in place of what is recorded in Scripture. That was precisely the problem Paul addressed to the Corinthians when he denied the very thing the spiritualizers claim. He said of his epistles (2 Cor. 1:13): Quote You don’t have to read between the lines of my letters; you can understand them (Moffatt. Translation). Quote Quote ...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them (Phillips translation). Quote Quote And we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean (Knox translation). Quote What should be understood is, a plain statement of fact using ordinary words needs no interpretation, but should be accepted as what the writer intended and applied to the ones spoken to in the context of the subject being discussed. Interpretation is applied to figurative statements such as parables, and that is where commonsense and nonsense is divided. When a statement of intentions, or historical fact is made, no one can be honest in their handling of Scripture and say that is not what the writer intended. To do otherwise is the equivalent of saying God actually falsified Scripture. That is in fact what almost everyone believed in the primitive church and is the parent of the present theological confusion in the body of Christ. Examples of the claim that God at times falsified Scripture were common in the early church writings. It is often and especially seen in the writings of Origen (AD 185 254), one of the most prolific writers of the post apostolic times. Speaking of the writers of the Scriptures he said: Quote They proposed to speak the truth where it was their intention to prefer the spiritual to the material. The spiritual truth was often preserved, as one might say, in the material falsehood. Quote If that is the way we are to approach the written Word, then who is to lead us, since we have already rejected what God has said as being what He intended. We are at loss as to which Scriptures to believe or whether any are believable. With that approach, the whole of Scripture is called into question as to whether it is a valid record or not. It never ceases to be an amazement how men with such brilliant minds as some have demonstrated can follow and advocate such utter foolishness. Because of the literacy of people other than scholars, today such bold accusations are not as common as when Origen made the statement. Yet the same identical methods more or less are constantly used by most who insist that much of the Scriptures is not to be taken literally, but must be given a “spiritual interpretation.” As a prime example of that, many say the whole book of the “Revelation of Jesus Christ” is only a parabolic picture of light overcoming darkness, or, good overcoming evil, and none of it is to be taken literally. If God does mean other than what He says, then where can be found a means of understanding what His intentions are? There are those who seem to think that the Holy Spirit guides them to the extent that they ignore the written Word with such as, “God told me.” A word of warning, If a spirit tells you that which dose not agree with the written word, then you are being deceived. As one notable TV preacher was reported to have said as he slammed his bible on the floor, “what do I need with that.” Since we as individuals are accountable for our own decisions before God, why would He hide the truth from some and reveal it to a select few? Though we do not hear that so boldly stated today as in the early centuries of the church, nevertheless, that seems to be the thinking of all too many of their present offspring who refer to themselves as scholars. Once persuaded that there is a question as to the basic intent or validity of a normal and literal statement of Scripture, restraints are removed, desires are free to run rampant, and the only limitation is the imagination. Their problem is that they have cast their lot with the false seers of old, “They speak a vision of their own heart, not from the mouth of the Lord” (Jer. 23:16). The proof of their deceiving themselves and others is evidenced by the fact of the constant confusion everywhere in biblical theology where their methods are used, and in particular in the scriptural teaching of the Messianic Kingdom of David and the whole field of biblical eschatology. In Scripture, whatever is spoken using literal or even figurative or symbolic language points to a literal meaning or fulfillment. The indisputable proof is that in all of the hundreds of instances of fulfilled prophecy, there has always been a literal fulfillment of even that which was spoken in symbolic terms. The Lord and His apostles constantly spoke of things that happened in order that the Scriptures might be literally fulfilled. Many examples could be given, but only the following from Matthew will be listed here (1:22; 2:15, 17, 23, 8:17; 12:17; 13:35; 21:4; 26:54, 56; 27:9, 35). The allegorists often point to Gal. 4:21 31 as proof of the legitimate use of allegorical teaching. When Paul uses the literal historical record of Sarah and Hagar to show a secondary allegorical meaning to teach things concerning law and grace, he uses a legitimate means of teaching used by everyone. However, a secondary allegorical meaning beyond the literal statement of fact is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is taking a normal statement of historical fact, and saying that isn’t what the writer intended. It should be understood with any amount of reason that if whatever the writer said isn’t what he meant, then the only other thing left is the imagination of the ones who deny what the Scriptures say. As to Paul or any other writer of Sacred Scripture giving a secondary allegorical meaning to Scripture, it is hardly worth mentioning that they, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote without error. Since they are not following Paul’s example as they claim, perhaps those who would say that Paul legitimizes their brand of teaching should first enlighten us as to where their inspiration and authority to change the meaning of Scripture comes from. I would like to remind the readers, the Lord said: Quote But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment (Matt. 12:36). Quote May the Lord bless Robert Edited by Robert, Aug 10 2008, 01:39 PM.
gborn@earthlink.net	Aug 10 2008, 05:16 PM Post #2
Newbie Posts: 19 Group: Members Member #4,831 Joined: August 4, 2008	Hi Robert, I suspect that this thread has something to do with the allegories that I listed as just part of my defense of the post-tribulation rapture discussion. I actually had already written some points in defense of this but did not include those in the posting, but here is an outline of those points. The entire white paper I have been writing on the end times plan is more than 60 pages so I don't know how to just post the whole thing. I end up posting sections that address issues. Building Blocks of Understanding Hidden Manna & Deception in Word of God – Why did He not make it clear? o Inspiration & Engineering of Gods Word o Bible Numerics – running checksum showing continues pattern through all 66 books. The Sum of Thy Word is Truth (Ps 119:160) On the surface, it says to me that we must consider the entire word of God, not just parts, to get the whole picture – which is true. Remember in Exodus 12, the Passover lamb had to be completely consumed, including the feet (walk of Christ), innards (heart of Christ), and the head (mind of Christ). As we look deeper, we see that God is a numerical God. That in Hebrew and in Greek, all letters are also numbers in their usage. The addition (sum) of the values of those letters (Gematria) forms a pattern of values throughout the 66 books and only those 66 books. It is not in the apocryphal texts, not in Books of Enoch, Jasher, or Jubilees, and not in the Gospel of Thomas. 40 authors wrote 66 books over 1500 years without the benefit of a computer that has a continuous numeric pattern through all the text – impossible with man. This level of specificity of the text means to me that I should not be working with any paraphrasing as the hidden meanings can be lost by a translator who thought the Lord “must have meant this” by some verse. o Theomatics – seemingly unrelated prose dealing with the same topic have same Gematria. There are a few reference books on this topic on Amazon.com: • The Original Code in the Bible: Using Science and Mathematics to Reveal God's Fingerprints by Del Washburn • Theomatics: Theomatics : God's Best Kept Secret Revealed by Jerry Lucas and Del Washburn • Theomatics II: God's Best Kept Secret Revealed by Del Washburn o Bible Codes – complex codes appear when using Equidistant Letter Sequences (ELS) especially when following the Numerically validated texts. We can tell it’s there, but we do not have the key to the code. We cannot reliably tell what it says. Word association is not sufficient. False events are placed in the text to trap some. Sometimes, the word “delayed” is also found in the matrices that was not previously seen so the events do not occur on the dates originally quoted. Several false paths to the end have been encoded by God to mislead many. To read these codes requires a proper key for decoding and we do not have it. I believe, that at the end of days, we will see that all of human history was encoded underneath the text when Jesus “unseals” the Book of Life, but God never had any message from the prophets that would have the people do anything but repent of their ways. The Bible is also the book of human history and probably also the Book of Life, all in one text as originally written. The Bible Code is for us to see a glimpse into His all-sovereign genius as God but not to foretell the future. We do have some verified patterns, like every 50th letter in the Torah (first 5 books) spells our TORH. Chuck Missler and others have talked about this patter, but do other patterns exist? o As the evidence will show, God even looked after how the books are divided up into chapters and verses. Some chapter and verses demonstrate hidden principles and dates. Many say that America is not mentioned in the Bible. A careful reading of Jeremiah 50 & 51 and looking at the criteria carefully will show the discerning who is the head of Babylon now in the end times. For those questioning whether God has encoded human events in Bible chapter and verse numbers, I offer the following simple example of how 9/11/01 World Trade Center attack was encoded in the Word: Judges 16:27-29 – Samson puts his hands on two pillars (twin towers) and pushes them down, bringing down the house, killing about 3000 people that were on the roof (same about 3000 people quoted in the news that were killed from the upper floors of the towers. Judges (7th book of Old Testament representing the 7th Millennium from Adam) Vs 27 ==> 2+7 = 9 ==> 3000 on the roof Vs 29 ==> 2+9 = 11 ==> two pillars (twin towers) So – on a 9/11 in the 7th Millennium, 3000 people killed, twin pillars (towers) somewhere – where? Now, count back the number of verses to Judges 9:11 – a numerical reference to 9/11/01 – you will find that it is 212 verses backward from Judges 16:28. 212 is the area code for New York City. So in the 7th millennium, on 9/11, 3000 people on the roof will be killed in two towers in New York City. Even for those who think this is only coincidence (which I no longer believe in after studying God’s all sovereign power), you would have to admit that there is a possibility for hiding nearly infinite amounts of information in various forms in the Word beyond the letter of that word. Well, you might say, about 3000 soldiers died at Pearl Harbor. What makes this 9/11 event so pivotal when Pearl Harbor was not so pivotal, even through 4 years of a great war followed it? This is a logical question that I asked the Lord a couple of times, and then He showed me Isaiah ` 30:25-26. Verse 25 talks about streams of living water (people speaking the Word of God) on every mountaintop (kingdoms of the world) in the “day that the towers fall” (Millennium identified by towers falling perhaps even as a trigger event to something). Verse 26 goes to talk about the Epiphany, Jesus clothing Himself in human flesh again, in a multitude of people who have taken on the moon glory (1 Cor 15:40-42, 2 Cor 3:18 - emptied of their own glory to reflect the Sun’s (Son’s) glory in a time of great darkness or evil) at the start of the tribulation period. I have extensive verses on this and the book “Hidden Manna for the End Times” also has a chapter or two on this. ` Summed up, we are looking at a sequence, possibly triggered by 9/11/01, which ends with the Day of the Lord coming and the Rapture. o Hidden Symbols, Parables, Allegories, Types, Shadows God certainly did hide information in the Word to be searched, dug, discerned, and revealed by the Holy Spirit in careful, reverent study. Psalm 78:2 – Matthew 13:35, Mark 4:11-12, 34-35 – John 16:25 - speaks in parables Prov 25:2 – he hides matters, we seek it out Matthew 11:25 – Luke 10:21 – hide it from the wise and understanding – reveal to babes who are trainable 1 Cor 2:7 – mysteries of the kingdom Rev 2:17 – to he who overcomes will I give the hidden manna 1. Bible Symbolism Old & New Testament a. Old Testament is the new testament concealed b. New Testament is the Old Testament Revealed c. History Repeats: Eccl 1:9, 3:15 – nothing new under Sun – be very careful of prophets and words that say that God is doing a “whole new thing”. He does the same old thing, over and over again. It takes discernment to see spiritual and repeat fulfillments when comparing human events to scripture. d. 1 Cor 10:11, Gal 4:22-26, Col 2:16-17 - Expect foreshadowing, allegories, types, figures, shadows, but must understand the correct theology in order to understand the timeline and why. All of scripture in the Old Testament happened precisely as described and much also is an allegory in that they are physical fulfillments which will later be spiritual fulfillments in the new testament, primarily in the end times. If history repeats, then much of history is allegorical prophecy. e. You cannot understand what will be until you understand who I AM and who I have been. o If these are the very last days, Dan 12 demonstrates that there will be words in the Book not unveiled until very end of time. o God hides meaning in names of people places and things in the bible as well: Noah Generations and Names symbolism (Gen 5:3-29) – Gospel Message Generation Name Meaning 1 Adam Man 2 Seth Appointed 3 Enosh Mortal, Frail, Miserable 4 Kenan Sorrow, Wanderer 5 Mahalalel Blessed God 6 Jared Shall Come Down, Bring Forth 7 Enoch Teacher 8 Methusaleh His Death Shall Bring 9 Lamech Strength, Power 10 Noah Rest Source: Chuck Missler Gods Spirit enables the deep meanings or blinds the people Deut. 29:4 Isa 6:9 - Matthew 13:11-15 - Mark 4:11-13 – Luke 8:10 - Acts 28:26-28 - Rom 11:8 – dull the eyes and plug the ears that they may not hear or see. Isa: 29:10 2 Tim 3:7 – ever learning but never able to come to knowledge of truth. Rev 2:17 – to he who overcomes (note: not to everyone) will I give the hidden manna God will try you with error to see if you love truth Deut 13:1-3 Lam 3:37-38 Ezekiel 14:4-9 – answer according to idolatries Numbers 22 - Balaam 1 Kings 13 - Prophet 2 Sam 24 & 1 Chr 21 – David ==> Well, God told me to do that! – oh yeah? what did you hear first from him? 1 John 2:24 – let that which you heard from the beginning abide in you. Prov 17:4, 17:11 2 Thes 2:8-12 – will send a working of error if you did not love the truth. Errors/conflicts in the Original Hebrew: Most are failure to understand the spiritual hints that God left in Inspired word as foreshadows or spiritual types presented. 1. Christmas Story: City of David is not Bethlehem in Old Testament – foreshadowing. a. City of David is Zion in Old Testament, not Bethlehem (2 Sam 5:7, 1 Chr 11:5, 1 Chr 11:16, 1 Kgs 8:1, Heb 12:22, Gal 4:25-26, Rev 21:2) – Zion is the city of all spiritual Israel) 2. Dan 8 – Alexander the Great had no Navy, no Air Force, not across whole earth – foreshadowing of another attack on Iran by another force with Navy and Air Force. 3. Genuine Conflicting words: a. 2 Sam 10:18 (700 chariots, 40,000 horsemen) vs. 1 Chron 19:18 (7,000 chariots, 40,000 footmen) b. 2 Chron 36:9 (Johoiachin 8 yrs old) vs. 2 Kings 24:8 (Johoiachin 18 yrs old) c. 1 Kings 4:26 (40,000 stalls of horses) vs. 2 Chron 9:25 (4,000 stalls of horses) d. 1 Chron 11:11 (against 300) vs. 2 Sam 23:8 (against 800) e. Ezra 2:13 (Adonikam Children – 666) vs Neh 7:18 (Adonikam children – 667) 4. Ezekiel 2:8-3:4 and Revelation: 10 8-11 Sweet as Honey, Bitter in Belly a. Prophecy over Nations – John was in exile – hint at end-time ministry. There is a right answer 2 Pet 1:20 The Letter Kills, but the Spirit gives Life 2 Cor 3:6 We are born into the Spirit, not the Letter Rom 2:28-29 In Jesus Day, those who held the letter killed the one who held the Spirit Acts 13:27 Repetition of History – Repeating Cycles o Eccl 1:9, 3:15 o 1 Cor 10:11 o Col 2:16 o Gal 4:24 o Be very careful of prophetic words that say that God is doing a brand new thing. He’s doing the same old thing, just not seen properly – usually it is a physical fulfillment first, then a spiritual one (1 Cor 10:11, Gal 4:22-26) This is a foreshadowing of what is to come in the church today. 2 Tim 4:3-4 Pre-Trib Rapture Prosperity Gospel Eternal Security Buy & Sell God’s Word – Rhema, studies, prophecies, etc. Apostles and prophets are all long dead Not everything is from God Beware of Leaven that corrupts the Gospel Matt 16:5-12, Mark 8:14-21, Luke 12:1 Beware the leaven of the Pharisees – makes it more desirable to the flesh – that flesh that is the enemy of God. (Rom 8:6-7) Political Christianity - Beware the leaven of Herod (Mark 8:15). Human Government issues. Jn 18:36 - Jesus Kingdom is not of this world Dan 4:17 – He puts in charge the lowest of Men. What you First Heard Is the Critical Information: 1 Kings 13 2 Samuel 24 Numbers 22 1 John 2:24 ==> Goes directly against dispensationalism
Robert	Aug 10 2008, 08:00 PM Post #3
Member Posts: 61 Group: Members Member #4,713 Joined: May 30, 2008	I didn't get youe name, so to whoever wrote the post above, this applies. And no. it has nothing to do with any particular post. I understand there is much interest in numbers, the bible code, etc., but that has nothing to do with what I said. Let me try and simplify my post. If someone has a so-called revelation; or finds some secret code that unlocks mysteries in the Scriptures and he or she wants to follow it, that is his or her business. What I am saying is, if one denies what is written using normal words that everybody understands, and replaces them with speculation or something out of the imagination or special revelation they think they had, then they have that choice. But if that is contrary to the letter of the Word, then, they are saying that God lied and only gives understanding to the one making that claim. Itˇ¦s an old trick; old as the world and from the beginning has been used by the high priest of every pagan religion in the world to gain prestige and power over those who are seen as being inferior to themselves. That is the way it was with Eve in the garden, and we have been paying the price ever since. It is one thing to try to gain understanding of an unknown mystery, but in the final analysisˇ¦ for his findings to have worth, then it comes down to an exact understanding of any particular thing, and it must line up with what has already been written. I appreciate the effort you put into your post, it was considerable. But I seen nothing from it that changes anything I said in my original post. The last part after you mentioned certain Scriptures had absolutely nothing to do with anything I posted, you said: „ĂGoes directly against dispensationalism If you say dispensationalism as it is generally understood is not a valid way of sorting things out and keeping things in Scripture in context where they belong, than you cannot be farther from the truth. That would be saying that anything said to anyone applies to everyone about everything, in which case, on the face of it, I really donˇ¦t have time for debating what should be plain to everyone. That was precisely the problem Paul addressed to the Corinthians when he denied the very thing you seem to be saying. He said of his epistles (2 Cor. 1:13): You donˇ¦t have to read between the lines of my letters; you can understand them (Moffatt. Translation). ...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them (Phillips translation). And we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean (Knox translation). In His grace Robert Edited by Robert, Aug 10 2008, 08:02 PM.
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