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| Georgia/Russia War Intel - Stratfor | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 9 2008, 12:44 AM (1,258 Views) | |
| METHUSELAH | Aug 12 2008, 04:55 AM Post #21 |
METHUSELAH
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chomesoon- I'd love to know the source of this information. You must be very well connected indeed. It's been my experience that the Russians have a propoganda machine to equal that of any other nation on Earth. TL |
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| chomesoon | Aug 12 2008, 05:30 AM Post #22 |
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Do not let your hate for Russia blind you to the facts. Okay let's go to a source that is easily gotten and I doubt they are part of the Russian propaganda machine. Actually they are part of the American/Israeli propaganda machine. Let's start with Fox News. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,401043,00.html "Georgia began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday with heavy rocket and artillery fire and air strikes that ravaged the provincial capital, Tskhinvali "Russia, which has developed close ties with the region and granted passports to most of its residents, sent in thousands of troops who launched an overwhelming artillery barrage and air attacks against Georgian troops. Heavy Russian shelling drove the Georgian forces out of the South Ossetian provincial capital of Tskhinvali on Sunday." I could sit here all night posting other sources. The fact remains that Georgia began this conflict by invading a pro-Russian separatists area called S.Ossetia which was under the protection of Russia. They moved in, killed masses of civilians in S. Ossetia until Russia came in and stopped it. Those are facts. That is what Rosenberg left out. He's trying to paint this picture to his readers which he knows are anti-Russian to begin with, that Putin was sitting at the Olympics smiling while he was killing civilians in S.Ossetia. Wrong. The Georgians killed the civilians and Russian then moved in and attacked the Georgian military. And yes, now Russia is going to take control over all of Georgia. |
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| Wil | Aug 12 2008, 07:55 AM Post #23 |
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Not at the moment anyway: Russian president calls halt to Georgian war MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Dmitry Medvedev announced Tuesday that he has ordered an end to military operations against Georgia. The announcement came minutes before French President Nicolas Sarkozy was to land in Moscow to meet with Medvedev to negotiate terms for a possible cease-fire. "I have reached a decision to halt the operation to force the Georgian authorities to peace," Medvedev said. "The aggressor has been punished and has incurred very significant losses. Its armed forces are disorganized." "The statement on the halt of the military action by Russia is the news we had expected. It's good news," Sarkozy said, according to an Interfax report. The decision ends five days of fighting that began in Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia and spread well into Georgia. Before the Russian president said he would halt military operations, a Georgian Interior Ministry official said Tuesday that Russian bombs hit one of the three pipelines carrying oil to the Black Sea port of Poti. There was no oil in the pipeline at the time, the ministry official said. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili has accused Russia of provoking the war to justify a full-scale invasion of the former Soviet state. The Russians say Saakashvili attacked first in an attempt to gain control of South Ossetia. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an earlier news conference Tuesday that Russia wanted a demilitarized zone to be created in Georgian territory before a cease-fire took effect. The zone had to be big enough to prevent Georgia's military from again attacking the breakaway province, Lavrov said. He said Russian troops already in the breakaway province on peacekeeping duty should remain, but that Georgian troops who were part of that force should not return. Lavrov said it would be best if Saakashvili stepped down as Georgia's leader -- something the president has vowed not to do -- but that Russia is not demanding his resignation. "We have no plans to throw down any leadership," Lavrov said. "It is not part of our culture. It is not what we do." However, Lavrov said Moscow did not trust the country's leadership. He said Saakashvili's "barbaric and brutal action" had undermined trust in Georgia. Lavrov also had harsh words for the West, saying he was "deeply disappointed" Western powers had not talked Georgia out of attacking South Ossetia last Thursday. On Monday Saakashvili signed the cease-fire proposal after meeting the Finnish and French foreign ministers. French President and EU leader Nicolas Sarkozy was due in Moscow Tuesday morning to talk with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, before flying to Tbilisi to met with Saakashvili. Earlier, Vitaly Churkin, Russia's ambassador to the U.N., said it could not sign a Security Council cease-fire resolution drafted by the French because it was lacking in a "series number" of areas. Meanwhile, the Russian military advanced further into Georgia overnight, heading toward cities outside South Ossetia and Abkhazia. From the flashpoint South Ossetia, the Russian military moved south toward the central Georgia city of Gori, Georgia said. Russia said its troops were on the outskirts of the city. A CNN crew in Gori saw Georgian forces piling into trucks and leaving the city at high speed. Gori lies along Georgia's main east-west highway, and is an important site for Georgia's communication systems. Russian troops were also in Senaki, in western Georgia, having advanced from the breakaway area of Abkhazia, Russian and Georgian officials said. Georgia's security chief Alexander Lomaia said Tuesday that Russian troops had left Senaki but remained on the outskirst of Zugdidi and around Gori, The Associated Press reported. Lomaia said Russian aircraft bombed Gori on Tuesday morning, targeting administrative buildings and a street market in the center, AP reported. Georgia, a pro-Western ally of the U.S., is intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which have strong Russian-backed separatist movements. The situation in South Ossetia escalated rapidly from Thursday night, when Georgia said it launched an operation into the region after artillery fire from separatists killed 10 people. It accused Russia of backing the separatists. South Ossetia, which has a population of about 70,000, is inside Georgia but has an autonomous government. Many South Ossetians support unification with North Ossetia, which would make them part of Russia. Russia supports the South Ossetian government, has given passports to many in South Ossetia, and calls them Russian citizens. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/12/georgia.russia.war/index.html |
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| METHUSELAH | Aug 12 2008, 04:45 PM Post #24 |
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chomesoon: I said nothing about "hating" Russia. I merely stated that their propoganda machine (not to mention Intelligence capabilities) are without equal in the world. This is a factual statement, not a judgment of right or wrong. Chill... 
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| Forgive someone today! You'll both feel better... | |
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| Wil | Aug 13 2008, 08:32 AM Post #25 |
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Reports: Russians moving deeper into Georgia TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- A convoy of Russian armored personnel carriers was heading deeper into Georgia Wednesday on a road that leads from Gori to Tbilisi, CNN Correspondent Matthew Chance reported. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili says Russia has continued to attack the city of Gori. Chance said the column was moving slowly south, from Gori. Chance, on the road with the Russian column, said there were hundreds of men in personnel carriers. CNN has been told by Georgian officials that the convoy would turn off the road to Tbilisi toward an evacuated Georgian military base. The convoy was located well outside the mandated area for Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. Georgia and Russia have accused each other of violating a cease-fire only 24 hours after it was agreed. The six-point deal was meant to end the fighting over the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, but both sides traded accusations Wednesday. Earlier, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov used a Moscow press conference to urge Georgia to formally sign the cease-fire deal. Meanwhile Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, flanked by the leaders of Lithuania, Poland, Estonia and Latvia in a separate media briefing, said Russian tanks were attacking and "rampaging" through the Georgian town of Gori despite the cease-fire. Video Watch Saakashvili speak » However journalists in Gori, the birthplace of former Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, said they had seen no Russian tanks. Residents there told the journalists they had earlier seen "some" Russian tanks, but not in large numbers. A Russian military official also disputed Georgia's claims. He said Russian forces were at an abandoned Georgian artillery base near Gori, but not inside the town itself. "I tell you with full responsibility that there are no Russian tanks in Gori today and there is no reason to be," because Gori authorities have fled the city, said General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian General Staff. Nogovitsyn said the conflict had killed 74 Russian troops, wounded 171 and left 19 missing in action. Video Watch more on push for peace » Saakashvili also accused Russia of carpet bombing Tskhinvali, South Ossetia's capital, and setting up internment camps for residents there and in Abkhazia. "Georgia has been sticking to its commitments, but I don't think there is much to stick to here," Saakashvili said. Video Watch more on battle-ravaged South Ossetia » French President Nicolas Sarkozy said Tuesday that Saakashvili and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had agreed to the deal, which called for an immediate cease-fire and withdrawal to the positions held before the fighting escalated. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/13/georgia.russia.war/index.html |
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| jewel4Christ | Aug 13 2008, 11:01 AM Post #26 |
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 I just heard that the president is about to speak to the US on this.via, the rosegarden. jewel |
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| twinkle | Aug 13 2008, 11:54 AM Post #27 |
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Someone forwarded me an email with this info. I'm not sure who wrote this but it has some youtube videos if you want to check them out. I don't know if the info is correct or not but I don't believe most things I hear on CNN or FOX: WHAT WE CAN DO TO STOP WAR & PROTECT OURSELVES FROM MARTIAL LAW IN USA Congressman Ron Paul warns us that if H.Con Res 362 (which declares war with Iran) is signed into law, just the act of signing it would cause the price of gas to shoot up to $6./ gallon. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9775 H.Con Res 362 would be a declaration of war against IRAN, something which Israel and oil interests desperately are trying to trigger off. See open letter by Kucinich against H Con Res 362 at http://www.stopaipac.org/362Kucinichletter.htm We must kill it to stop another senseless war! More on this below. Everything you're hearing in the mainstream media right now about Georgia's attack on South Ossetia is spin intended to back Bush's assertion that the Russians were the aggressors in the situation, when the facts prove that CIA Proxy Georgia in fact initiated the genocidal attack (because South Ossetia lies at the crossroads of key oil and gas pipeline routes), (during the first day of the Olympics) and that Russia was left with no option but to retaliate in defense of the defenseless civilians in apartment buildings who were shelled, and murdered, wholly without provocation, and also to protect oil pipelines running through their territory which the Neocons and Israel seek to control. Ignore all mainstream media spin on this- The truth is that US/Israel/CIA proxy Georgia has just engaged in genocide by murdering thousands of uarmed civilians in South Ossetia in cold blood for the simple reason that they want to control oil and gas pipelines. (You can see from this how dangerous a martial law situation would be here at home- these people are ruthless. Human life means nothing to them.) Watch this interview in "Russia Today" of an American living in South Ossetia who says the attack by Georgia was America's fault www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRl3qArJO-o&feature=user I agree with him, and we can't continue allowing our foreign policy to be dictated by Israel which controls Congress via AIPAC, they're trying to trigger off War with IRAN and a Third World War. Victor Nalein Raevskiy, Senior Researcher from Moscow says in this news interview that the US and Israel prompted this action by Georgia against South Ossetia saying that the reason for the attack was to try to grab the airfields there to use as a staging area to attack Iran, noting that Tehran is only 500 miles away from South Ossetia. They note that the distance between S.Ossetia and Tehran is less than the distance between Paris and Berlin. They note that South Ossetia is a Muslim territory. They're saying the US and Israel have been building airfields in Georgia to Nato standards, reconstructed to western military standards for the purpose of attacking Iran. www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yZtIUcr9M&feature=email I believe him and not our Neocon controlled media. Email these links to your Senators and Congressmen and tell them not to buy into the mainstream news spin or to what AIPAC tells them. Not surprisingly, at the Olympics in Beijing, Bush chastised Putin by demanding that Russia remove their forces from Georgia immediately. This won't do anything to help US relations with either Russia or China, and its a clear indication that the ruling elite who control Bush are trying to get us into a war with IRAN (or even WW3) (no doubt as a distraction intended to coincide with the end of the government's fiscal year which comes at the end of September- be sure to listen to the audio file below to hear George Green's sobering analysis.) Congressman Ron Paul has been warning all of us in recent radio broadcasts to contact Congress in an effort to get members of congress to withdraw support for H.Con Res. 362 which amounts to be a declaration of war with IRAN. See the current list of cosponsors herehttp://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HC00362:@@@P, and if your Congressman is on this list tell him or her to remove themselves- that theres no evidence IRAN has ever done anything to deserve our attacking them, and that this effort to get us into a war is clearly being initated by oil interests and by the American Israeli Polical Action Committee (AIPAC). Note at the bottom of the list that some have removed themselves due to our pressure.Call your congressman via the Capital Switchboard at 202-224-3121 to oppose H.Con Res. 362 If they're on it, demand that they remove themselves as sponsors as 4 members have already. Also take action against war on Iran here http://www.stopwaroniran.org/ |
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| w8n4him | Aug 13 2008, 12:17 PM Post #28 |
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Ossetians Say West Is Behind Conflict 12 August 2008 By Matt Siegel / Staff Writer VLADIKAVKAZ — It has been three days since Alyona Zagoyeva has eaten or slept. After a weekend spent huddled in the dirty basement of her Tskhinvali apartment building with 20 of her neighbors, she seems exhausted and has to hang on the door handle for support. Her eyes blaze with anger, however, when asked about what she has seen. "Georgians aren't people," she said. "They're animals. We just want to thank Presidents Medvedev and Putin for their help. Our hope is that one day we'll be able to return to our homeland." As thousands of refugees continue to flee the devastating violence in Georgia's breakaway republic of South Ossetia, that anger is increasingly being projected abroad. Egged on by sometimes inflammatory Russian media reports of the fighting, something approaching anti-Western hysteria is starting to take hold among the population here. In dozens of interviews across the Russian republic of North Ossetia over the last three days, locals and displaced people vented their anger at what they see as the havoc caused by American and European regional machinations. Standing by the side of the Zaramakh Highway, now marked heavily with tank treads, Pyotr, a 60-year-old vendor selling grilled meat in the Ossetian style, thinks that he has the conflict all figured out. "Every country wants to look out for its own interests," said Pyotr, who refused to give his last name. "There's gas and oil down there and access to the sea. That's why the West wants to take it." And what about Russia's interests in the region? "In Putin's country, he already has everything that he needs," he said, adding with a laugh, "and you have less of it." Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili is largely reviled throughout the area, where he is perceived as little more than a Western stooge. The incorrect opinion that Georgian soldiers have been laying siege to Tskhinvali with U.S.-made artillery is heard everywhere. There is even a popular rumor here that U.S. soldiers are fighting alongside them. The scale of the destruction caused by the fighting in South Ossetia is another factor driving anti-Western sentiment. Russia claims that 30,000 South Ossetians have been made homeless in the fighting, although the figures are impossible to verify. As the refugees enter Russia, they bring with them stories of misery and suffering. "I saw a car full of women and children on the street in Tskhinvali," said a refugee who gave her name only as Tatyana. "They just shot them. They were just sitting there, and they shot them." Stories like Tatyana's can be found everywhere here. Pyotr Bezhov, a Russian peacekeeper stationed in South Ossetia who fled the violence along with his daughter, Oxana, on Sunday, described with horror the sights he had seen inside Tskhinvali. "I saw a car stopped in the middle of an intersection," he said. "Inside, there was a mother, father and their two children. They were all dead. A tank just shot them." Roughly 60 kilometers from the border, the Alansky Convent has been converted into a makeshift refugee camp. Nearly 40 children and their families now live in shared housing, with no prospect of leaving. Tseresa Konbegova, 34, was at home in Tskhinvali when the fighting began Thursday. They had no idea that the fighting would begin so quickly, she said. Still, she believes that the fighting could easily end as quickly as it began, given the right motivation. "If America told them to stop fighting tomorrow, they would," she cried. "Look. We have beautiful children just like yours. All we want is peace in South Ossetia." Russian authorities have barred foreign journalists from entering the conflict zone, making it difficult to report on conditions on the ground. The grizzly images carried back with the Russian journalists who shuttle across the border with no restrictions only add to the anti-Western sentiment. State-owned Vesti television has been running 24-hour coverage of the fighting and humanitarian disaster inside South Ossetia for several days. Graphic images of the dead and the wounded run beneath slick animated graphics of explosions. Not everyone agrees with the prevailing opinion, however. Tearing down a narrow dirt side road in his aging Soviet-made Zhiguli, Ruslan Didoyev recalled with glee the illicit transmissions of Radio Free Europe that he listened to in his youth. "It's not about East versus West. It's not about Bush versus Putin," he said with a sigh. "It's about what happens when a people are split apart." http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/369720.htm |
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| jewel4Christ | Aug 13 2008, 01:53 PM Post #29 |
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Hi, I feel as if the whole world has gone mad...and, while the world seeks destruction, all I know for sure is that  I can only find peace in the Lord. jewel |
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| Wil | Aug 13 2008, 02:15 PM Post #30 |
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Amen Jewel, Isa.26:3. First US-Russian clash possible Bush orders US Air Force-Navy humanitarian airlift to Georgia DEBKAfile Special Report August 13, 2008, 7:25 PM (GMT+02:00) Bush starts to remove the gloves He demanded that Russia open all routes to these deliveries and to civilian transit. DEBKAfile’s military sources report that the strong military actions a furious US president George W. Bush ordered Wednesday, Aug. 13, after seven days of Russian-Georgian warfare, amount to a bid to break the sea, land and air blockade Russia still maintains against Georgia in violation of the EU-brokered ceasefire. {The first direct US-Russian military clashes in Georgia are now possible if the Russians fail to give way when challenged by US air transports and vessels heading for Georgia. For seven days, Russia has exerted exclusive mastery of Georgia’s skies, sea and land routes.} Flanked by the secretaries of state and defense, Bush said that Robert Gates as head of the military had already sent the first US Air Force transport with humanitarian and medical aid on its way to Georgia. Our military sources report that the US air corridor has a short distance to fly from US bases in Italy and Turkey. The US president accused Moscow of violating the less than one-day old ceasefire fire in its conflict with Georgia, by sending Russian tanks and APC’s to the east of the Georgian town of Gori, threatening the capital Tbilisi, bombing the Black Sea port of Poti and sinking Georgian vessels. Bush reiterated US support for Georgia’s democratically-elected government and territorial integrity and declared Russia must cease all military acts and withdraw to positions held before the conflict flared. Referring to Moscow’s efforts to integrate into the diplomatic, political, economic, and security structures of the 21st century, Bush said Russia is now putting its aspirations at risk by taking actions in Georgia that are inconsistent with the principles of those institutions. Voicing a veiled threat, the US president said: “To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe, and other nations, and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must keep its word and act to end this crisis.” The Bush statement Wednesday followed reports of Russian tanks entering Gori after the ceasefire, and some 15 armored personnel carriers heading out of the devastated ghost city and blocking the highway connected South Ossetia to the rest of Georgia. Russian “irregulars” were reported killing, burning and looting in Gori and destroying ammunition dumps. A Georgian checkpoint has been placed outside Tbilisi. Russia was also said to have shot down two Georgian spy drones over the breakaway province. debka.com |
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| w8n4him | Aug 13 2008, 02:22 PM Post #31 |
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i have goosebumps......... |
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| twinkle | Aug 13 2008, 04:06 PM Post #32 |
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Looks like WWIII will soon be upon us. The End times are wrapping up. Soon the tribulation.
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| kgreen20 | Aug 13 2008, 04:55 PM Post #33 |
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And before that, the Rapture! |
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| w8n4him | Aug 13 2008, 04:59 PM Post #34 |
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oy |
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| twinkle | Aug 14 2008, 02:39 PM Post #35 |
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Top Geopolitical Author: U.S. Risks Nuclear War With Russia Russian foreign minister Lavrov dismisses further reports of Russian advance as “a propaganda scam” Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet Thursday, August 14, 2008 Political economist and best-selling geopolitical author F. William Engdahl says that the U.S. risks stumbling into a nuclear war with Russia over the situation in Georgia and South Ossetia, as President Bush and Condoleezza Rice both heightened their rhetoric against alleged military breaches of the cease-fire. The Secretary of State has threatened Russia with international isolation over its response to the Georgian sneak attack on South Ossetia last week, an assault that claimed around 2,000 civilian lives. President Bush has also demanded Russia change its course amid talk of the country having its G8 membership suspended and its WTO membership blocked. Western news outlets claimed again today that Russia continues to perform aggressive military maneuvers inside Georgia, but such reports have been strenuously denounced by Russian officials as propaganda. Yesterday’s widely-reported allegations, that Russian forces were assaulting the Georgian town of Gori and heading for the capital Tblisi, proved to be inaccurate. (ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW) On Monday night Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili falsely claimed that Russia had launched a full scale invasion of Georgia to “cut it in half,” in what observers called an attempt to stir the U.S. and Europe into offering immediate military support. Saakashvili lied again when he claimed that Tbilisi airport and Poti port would be placed under the control of the U.S. military, a claim swiftly denied by the Pentagon. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov today labeled such reports as “A propaganda scam, that is attempting to present an aggression on the part of the Georgian army against its own citizens as a conflict between Georgia and Russia.” Lavrov also warned Washington had to choose between cooperation with Russia or continuing its “virtual project” with Georgia. Georgia is a U.S./NATO client state run by a puppet President installed via a fake color revolution that was funded by American NGO’s and the CIA. Geopolitical expert and author of the best-selling book “A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order”, F. William Engdahl today warns that the crisis could escalate into a full blown nuclear showdown between the U.S. and Russia. “What Washington is literally playing with here is nuclear war by miscalculation - thinking they can outflank the Russians psychologically and militarily,” said Engdahl, adding that Russia has clearly drawn a line in the sand with regards to Georgia’s attempt to invade South Ossetia. “Russia went into Georgia to essentially deliver a message,” states Engdahl . “There are more than 1,000 US military special forces in Georgia doing exercising, training Georgian troops, before Georgia launched the attack on Ossetia on 8 August. There are 1,000 Israeli troops at least, private security firms and military advisors, including advisors who are upgrading the Georgian air force in an installation near Tbilisi. That’s what the Russian airplanes hit, and they essentially made the military strike on South Ossetia militarily impossible by making incursions inside Georgian territory before they announced that they were calling a halt to their military operations.” Engdahl states that the conflict boils down to the fact that there is a new cold war over oil in the Central Asian region, with U.S. oil companies having opened the BTC pipeline which runs through Azerbaijan and Georgia and brings oil from the Caspian Sea to the west, sidelining Russian territory. http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-geopolitical-author-us-risks-nuclear-war-with-russia.html |
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| Wil | Aug 15 2008, 12:36 PM Post #36 |
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What happens if they don't leave? Rice Says Russian Forces Must Leave Georgia Immediately Friday , August 15, 2008 WASHINGTON — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday that Russian forces must leave Georgia immediately after Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili announced he has signed a cease-fire agreement. Rice said she had been assured that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will sign an identical document. "With this signature by Georgia, this (withdrawal) must take place and take place now," Rice said at a press conference alongside Saakashvili, who said he will "never, ever surrender" in the showdown with Russia. “Georgia has been attacked. Russian forces need to leave Georgia at once," Rice said. "The world needs to help Georgia maintain its sovereignty, its territorial integrity and its independence.” Rice said Russia's invasion has "profound implications" for the West. Rice said the time has come "to begin a discussion of the consequences of what Russia has done." She also noted humanitarian aid already being provided by the United States and other nations and said that access for these supplies "must be immediate and unimpeded." Rice spoke just hours after President Bush stood outside the Oval Office of the White House and accused Russia of "bullying and intimidation" against Georgia. Bush said the Georgian people had chosen freedom and "we will not cast them aside." Full story: http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,404301,00.html |
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| Israeli | Aug 15 2008, 12:46 PM Post #37 |
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(This does NOT bode well!)) Russian youths revel in their quick triumph with cries of 'Russia is back!' By Anne Barnard Published: August 14, 2008 MOSCOW: Outside the gold-domed Cathedral of Christ the Savior, ranks of young people summoned by the Kremlin-endorsed group Young Russia stood Thursday with flickering candles in plastic cups. A young woman, her voice turned tinny by a megaphone, exhorted the crowd to consider the victims of "Georgian brutality." The young Muscovites gathered to show support for their government, which had sent tanks into the former Soviet republic of Georgia in a formidable show of Russian military strength. Many in the crowd saw in the events of the past week a comeuppance for the arrogant West. "The superpower showed that she was able to defend her people," Marina Katayeva, 30, a doctor, said of Russia. "Now we will be more respected." "I hope that now the West learns a lesson," said Alyona Latyuk, who is 22. But for the members of the youth-group - reliable supporters of the Kremlin - the gathering was less a triumphant war rally than a subdued memorial service and an expression of quiet confidence and pride. Today in Europe Diplomatic efforts to ease Georgia crisis are under way U.S. and Poland sign radar deal, angering Russia Russia vows to support two enclaves, in retort to Bush To describe Russia's actions, they used words like competent. Correct. Reasonable. Russia, in their view, was the peacemaker. "Russia wants to resolve things peacefully," said Latyuk, who wore a white tank top on which she had stenciled the English words "No War." Polls show that large majorities of Russians support the decision to send troops into Georgia. Even Mikhail Gorbachev - a former Soviet leader who is viewed favorably in the West - has spoken of his support for the war, saying that with Georgia trying to take back the capital of a pro-Russian separatist province and firing on Russian peacekeepers with artillery, Russia had no choice. While many Western commentators speak of strategic sea changes and of a new awareness of Russian military might, many Russians feel that their country had nothing to prove - at least not to them. The West, they say, may simply have learned what Russians already knew: That Russia is back. And the country's actions in Georgia, they say, are nothing to get excited about. They are part of the usual business of a great power in its backyard. Artyem Bychkov spent his smoke breaks on Monday watching people stream into a South Ossetian cultural center near the Moscow café where he works, to deliver goods that would be sent to refugees who fled the areas of fighting. For him, it was no surprise that Russia had the boldness and ability to act. To Bychkov, 27, Russia's military victory is the logical conclusion of the progression he saw while growing up. "I never had any doubts," he said. "Only the West didn't understand." Bychkov was a child when the Russian economy fell apart, at the same time that the Soviet Union did. His mother, a teacher, did not receive a salary for nearly a year. The family lived on cucumbers and potatoes that they grew themselves. The town outside Moscow where they lived, Dmitrov, was a crumbling backwater. Now, a building boom is turning Dmitrov into a bustling exurb, filled with shops and sports complexes. Moscow, flush with oil money, is dotted with shiny new cafés like MuMu, where Bychkov is the manager, trendily decorated with sleek black tables and planters full of spring-green grass. Unemployment is so low that Bychkov can not find enough waiters. "Russia is rising," Bychkov said. But coverage in the Western media, which he said portrayed Russia as the aggressor, disturbs him, he said. "Russia would have liked the support of the world," he said with a sigh. But he added that Russia would be vindicated eventually. Nearly everyone, Bychkov included, seems to accept the Kremlin account of how the war began: Georgian troops rampaged through Tskhinvali, the pro-Russian separatist capital of South Ossetia, and killed as many as 2,000 people. Russia was obliged to go in to prevent further atrocities. In recent years, the media in Russia have become far less free than they were in the 1990s under President Boris Yeltsin. Some critical media outlets remain, but since the beginning of the current crisis, state television - the main source of information for many Russians - has delivered the message that the war was a result of Georgian aggression. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, almost everyone seems to accept the Kremlin view that the people of South Ossetia, who traditionally have closer ties to Russia than to Georgia and who in recent years were given Russian passports, are Russian citizens. Georgia argues that Russia handed out the passports as a pretext to annex the territory. To many Russians, the South Ossetians are compatriots, and they could no more imagine leaving them to their own fate than - they repeatedly point out - the United States would allow attacks on its citizens in a neighboring country. They expressed, at the most, a dash of regret that things had come to this - to the invasion of Georgia. It is a country for which many Russians feel affection: for its spicy food, its mountains, its wine and its music. Even for those who are somewhat skeptical of the Kremlin, the condemnation of the West has been hard to accept. Oleg Baikov, who was getting on his motorcycle outside the swanky Coffee Mania café one recent morning, said he was worried that the West viewed Russia as dangerous. As a stockbroker, he watched in anguish as the Russian markets crashed in reaction to news of the war. Baikov said Russia had nothing to gain geopolitically in Georgia, as believed in the West, with cries of "Look at Russia, invading the poor little republic." "We're losing more than we're gaining," he said. "But we had no other choice." http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/14/europe/russia.php |
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| Israeli | Aug 15 2008, 02:13 PM Post #38 |
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(Woo hoo! Russia is gettin' NASTY!) George W Bush condemns Russia's 'bullying' of Georgia President George W Bush has accused Russia of "bullying" Georgia, warning Moscow that a "contentious relationship" with the US and Europe was not in its interests. By Damien McElroy in Tbilisi Last Updated: 3:18PM BST 15 Aug 2008 Russian troops take position at the entrance of the flashpoint city of Gori Russia's actions against Georgia over its incursion into South Ossetia have been critcised as 'disproportionate' Photo: GETTY But Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was unrepentant. "If someone continues to attack our citizens, our peacekeepers, then of course we will answer just as we did. There should be no doubt about this," the Russian leader said. He added that Washington's deal to sell a Patriot defence battery to Warsaw was directly aimed at Moscow. However, Mr Bush said, "The Cold War is over. The days of satellite states and spheres of influence are behind us." "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century," the president said. Increasing diplomatic pressure on Moscow, German Chancellor Angela Merkel criticised Russia's actions against Georgia over its incursion into South Ossetia as disproportionate. Earlier, a senior Russian general warned that Poland has made itself a nuclear target for Russia's military by hosting elements of a US anti-missile system. "By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent" certain, Russia's Interfax news agency quoted General Anatoly Nogovitsyn as saying. "It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority," Gen Nogovitsy was quoted as saying. He added that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them," Interfax said. As the rhetoric surrounding the conflict in Georgia escalated, Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, arrived in Tbilisi to secure the withdrawal of Russian combat forces to ceasefire lines. Miss Rice brought with her a draft French-brokered ceasefire that would require Russia to withdraw its combat troops from Georgia but would allow Russian peacekeepers to remain in the flash-point separatist region of South Ossetia and temporarily patrol outside the area. However, Miss Rice said the document would preserve the long-term principle of Georgia's territorial integrity. "It needs to be a formal ceasefire, which is what we are working on," she said. "But in order to get to that point there really does have to be important clarifications on a couple of these points (in the ceasefire) in order to make sure that Georgian interests are protected. Because the United States would never ask Georgia to sign on to something where its interests are not protected." By holding Gori, Russian forces effectively cut the country in half because the city sits along Georgia's only significant east-west highway. But restrictions on movements in and out of the town were being lifted as Russia moved back. "It's quiet there, but now there are problems with food," said Alexander Lomaia, the head of Georgia's national security council, who entered the town yesterday. The Georgian interior ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said there are no Russian troops in the city of Kutaisi, Georgia's second-largest city, despite reports they were headed in that direction overnight. Georgian officials said that troops remain in the Black Sea port city of Poti. The UN refugee agency raised its estimates of the number of displaced by the conflict. It said that 118,000 people had fled their homes because of fighting between Georgia and Russia and marauding by militias. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Antonio Guterres, will visit Tblisi and Moscow next week and will demand greater access for aid agencies to the conflict zones, according to his spokesman, Ron Redmond. He said: The latest estimates of displacement related to the conflict now total more than 118,000, based on figures provided by the governments." Russia rejected a Human Rights Watch report that its aircraft had used cluster bombs in two separate raids on the towns of Ruisi and Gori on Tuesday, killing at least 11 civilians and injuring dozens. Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of Russia's General Staff, said: "We never use cluster bombs. There is no need to do so." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2563532/Condoleezza-Rice-in-Georgia-to-finalise-peace-deal.html |
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| twinkle | Aug 15 2008, 04:06 PM Post #39 |
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Russia threatens to 'strike' Poland in wake of U.S. missile planLast Updated: Friday, August 15, 2008 | 8:02 AM ET Comments220Recommend71CBC News A Russian general says the recently negotiated deal to allow the United States to place a missile interceptor base in Poland "cannot go unpunished." Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian general staff, made the comment to reporters on Friday. Nogovitsyn was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying Poland was risking attack by agreeing to the deal. "Poland, by deploying [the system] is exposing itself to a strike —100 per cent," he said. It is the strongest language so far from Russian officials in reaction to plans to install a missile defence battery in a former Soviet satellite nation. Poland and the U.S. reached the agreement Thursday to base American missile interceptors in Poland in exchange for augmenting Polish forces with U.S. Patriot missiles. The agreement comes in the wake of increasing tensions involving Russia and its former satellite states. Poland and other republics in eastern Europe have been unsettled by Russia's recent military incursion into Georgia. The White House said the system, which is not yet running, is needed to protect the U.S. and Europe from possible attacks by missile-armed "rogue states" like Iran. But the Kremlin is convinced it is aimed at Russia's missile force. Referring to the "mutual commitment" part of the agreement, Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk said that NATO would be too slow in coming to Poland's defence if Poland were threatened, and that the bloc would take "days, weeks to start that machinery." The U.S. has also reached an agreement with the Czech Republic to place a radar component of the missile defence system in that country. The deal still needs approval from the Czech parliament. http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/15/missle.html?ref=rss Edited by twinkle, Aug 15 2008, 04:06 PM.
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