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| Coming Judgment; Judgment on the USA | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 11 2008, 04:34 PM (12,796 Views) | |
| Pinky1441 | Jul 12 2008, 02:16 PM Post #21 |
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I have also forwarded this my pastor and his wife. They are on vacation. I felt so strong about it I actually called them on their cell. They will sit down and look at it tonight. I will be curious to see what they say... |
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PINKY ..."In the latter days you will understand it perfectly." Jeremiah 23:20b  | |
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| kgreen20 | Jul 12 2008, 02:20 PM Post #22 |
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I'll bet you will. |
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| Wil | Jul 12 2008, 02:31 PM Post #23 |
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Kathy I am not seeing where Keith is believing in works salvation, if it's because of his mention of the Rev. churches type believers it is quite clear that not all believers will be raptured (or protected for non pre-trib believers) as Rev.3:10 clearly shows. |
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| kgreen20 | Jul 12 2008, 03:23 PM Post #24 |
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All true believers will be Raptured, Wil. Not one born-again Christian will be left behind. Those who think they are Christians because they go to church or do good works, or because their parents are, etc., will be left behind, but every person who has accepted Christ's gift of salvation will be caught up. I can refer you to an epistle that backs up what I just said. Sometime, when you have time, re-read 1st and 2nd Corinthians. Look at all the things Paul had to rebuke them for, especially in the first epistle: incest between a grown man and his father's wife; division and quarreling; taking one another to heathen courts, getting drunk at the Lord's Supper; etc., etc., etc. The Corinthian church was the most carnal church mentioned in the Bible, or just about. Yet, when Paul explained the resurrection to them, he said, "We all will be changed." He didn't say, "I will be changed, but you won't unless you shape up and get right with God." He said, "We all will be changed." "All" including every last born-again member of the Corinthian church, as well as the Apostle Paul himself! I'd say that definitely puts a knife in the partial Rapture theory. Edited by kgreen20, Jul 12 2008, 03:24 PM.
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| teamldr7 | Jul 12 2008, 04:21 PM Post #25 |
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7/12/08 1617 hours I thank all of you for your responses. To clarify a point: I do not believe that we need works to merit salvation. To Kgreen20: I agree with your lengthy answer concerning salvation and how we receive it – we both are on the same page in that respect. I have only given you a little of what I have – I am willing to share more. I can be easily misunderstood because I have written small pieces of lengthy topics and thus haven’t clarified everything. It took me 3 hours to just write the first posting and that was the first time I ever put it down on paper. To Pinky1441: It depends on whether you believe that any of what is going to happen will be during the tribulation period or pre-tribulation. According to kgreen20, if any of this was to be classified as tribulation, than the answer would be that NO Christians will die during these judgments. I believe the Lord was specific when He said that Christians would die side by side with non-Christians when California etc. is destroyed. I personally believe that the horsemen have already been released, because numerous Christians I trust have had visions etc. where they saw the horsemen already released. That would logically mean that the tribulation has already started and thus the rapture is going to be during the tribulation. As I mentioned earlier, the Lord has never used the word rapture to explain any of what He is planning on doing. If their visions were future and not present tense, then we could still be in the time period before the tribulation starts. That is all up to God and I don’t think any of us are going to lose sleep over whether the tribulation has already started or not. God is still in control no matter what time it is. He has made it clear that time as we know it is over. He said a while back that the hourglass in heaven (He might have been speaking metaphorically) had run out of sand – that there wasn’t a single grain of sand left in it and we (on earth) were simply waiting for the manifestation of that fact. Time is over – we just haven’t realized that fact yet. When all of this starts, then life as we know it is over, BUT God is still in control. He will never forsake His bride. My old pastor once said that he was a pan-tribulationist: that it was going to pan out in the long run. To lionschild: the answer to that question is not something I can discuss in this type of forum. That involves the 7 teams and that answer is the heart of revelation chapter 10. To kgreen20: Part of the problem involves who the true Church is. Is it those who call on the name of the Lord etc. and do not do the Lord’s will (Matthew 7 and Matthew 25)? Are these people truly Christians? One night years ago, I was in deep prayer when I felt the power/glory of the Lord enter the room (it became one of the most powerful moments of my Christian life). I can still see me sitting in my green recliner praying and experiencing all that happened, as if it just happened a moment ago. I clearly heard the Lord ask me what percentage of the population of the Unites States were Christians. I responded, after a moment of thought, that people say that about 75% of the people in the USA were Christians. He then asked me what I thought was the true percentage. I said that I felt it was closer to maybe 5 – 10% of the people were true Christians. He then clearly said that according to His viewpoint, only 1% of the people even “technically” qualified to be called Christians. He then said that there were only 5000 people in the United States who loved Him enough that they were willing to sacrifice their lives at a moment’s notice. He then proceeded to say that another number (not important at this point) that loved him, but wouldn’t be willing to die for Him etc. He then continued on grouping the Christians into categories by what they were willing to do for Him, till He eventually came back to the 1%. 1% of the population is 3,000,000 people – really pitiful. There are many people sitting in Churches that think they are Christians because they prayed a 10 second prayer asking Jesus into their hearts BUT never repented of their evil deeds (much less turning from them). I have a brother who has believed he is a Christian for probably over 20 years. I asked him some simple questions about the Bible and he couldn’t name me the 4 gospels, nor did he know who David was or Moses etc. He then admitted that he has just never gotten around to reading the Bible – he has more important things to do. The Lord gave me several dreams specifically showing me my brother’s heart – from the Lord’s point of view. He wasn’t a Christian! My brother did believe that my dreams (at least 3 every night on an average) were from God and when I shared what the dreams revealed, this led us into some “lively” discussions about his so called walk with God. I was not judging my brother’s heart – I was simply showing him the truth as God revealed it to me. Eventually through prayer and many tears, he did repent of his wicked life without the Lord and truly asked the Lord to save him. I rejoiced when he got saved (not because he said a little prayer, but because he had true repentance and desire to walk with God). Salvation is a free gift from God and is available to all of us. Those that play church are going to be very surprised when they are left behind. My purpose in taking all of this time posting this and responding to you, is not to divide us but to simply share what the Lord has ordered me to share. I am not arguing with any of you, but am simply trying to explain some of what I have heard. To Kgreen20: I think you might be surprised that what we actually believe might be very similar once we get past semantics etc. For deeper questions, feel free to email me at genesis6.8.9@gmail.com Keith |
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| DaveLovesJesus | Jul 12 2008, 04:52 PM Post #26 |
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Keith, I appreciate the maturity in your answers. I know we see it alot, but Ronald Weinland (2008 God's Final Witness) believes that a terrorist attack will happen this summer, Joel Rosenberg's current book has a nuclear attack in the USA in it and he's had some amazing similarities from his fiction to reality that he's made national news. Alot of people saying the same thing. It reminds me of Jericho. I believe that we may live that show for a time... We'll see. I do believe that things are about to change. I won't argue about the rapture or when it is or isn't. I've always been "pan-trib" about the rapture myself. I am just watching for His return. I know the rapture, when it happens, is all up to God. I am such a wretched man inside that I don't know how He could forgive me, but His Word says that He does. Because of that, I have to follow Him as much as I know how. If you are right, then life as we know it is about to change and our lives are in His hands anyway... just like now. God bless, DLJ I sent you an email as well with other questions. Lord, please take care of us and establish Your Kingdom on this earth!  Edited by DaveLovesJesus, Jul 12 2008, 05:03 PM.
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| kamcco | Jul 12 2008, 05:04 PM Post #27 |
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Hi Keith, Just wondering, since your screen name is "teamldr7 " , is your role to be the leader of the 7 teams you mention above? Cathy |
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| Pinky1441 | Jul 12 2008, 05:08 PM Post #28 |
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I too have sent an email to you. I these past few weeks, I have been realizing that I do not "need" what I currently have. My mom,dad,and sister think that I am nuts...pre occupied and too fixated on the end times. Maybe they are right. But I personally feel that it is opening my eyes to repent and look up. I no longer wish to buy the fancy clothes. I no longer care what my house looks like in form on materials. I no longer wish to watch tv, other than the news. No more soap operas (yes, I have been a fan for years). No, more spending money on useless things. I spend every moment praying to God. I spend every monet thinking of how to improve myself. I spend every moment sharing what I am learning. This is where people think I am out of touch. It was only recently that my DH (who, BTW, called me obsessed so much that I I have not taken care of myself...) finally sees where I am coming from. He does not see like I see. But he is realizing that we are not the Christians we thought we were. I have gotten him to read the Bible last evening and today. This is big for him. |
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PINKY ..."In the latter days you will understand it perfectly." Jeremiah 23:20b | |
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| nightbird | Jul 12 2008, 05:08 PM Post #29 |
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teamldr7, Thank you for this post. I confirms many things the Lord has spoken to me over the last 10 yrs., especially several prophecies given to me in 2004. I've posted some of the messages given to me from the Lord here, because the Lord asked me to. I also was told by the Lord to not pray in regards to mercy for California, when I was given a message of judgment for the state on March 9, of this year. My heart was so grieved for many days; that I finally could not help but plead once more for His mercy to them, and also posted it here and elsewhere. After several hours, I received an answer while I was alone with the Lord, His answer to me was this: "I know your heart is for Me to restrain the judgments coming, however, it is too late. The stench of sin has come up to My Throne; and I cannot stand the wickedness anymore. Prepare yourself for what is coming; stay close to Me. Pray for those who are my own, and for My Son to come quickly." So, all I can say is; keep us under Your wings Lord, and Come for us soon. Edited by nightbird, Jul 12 2008, 05:16 PM.
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| teamldr7 | Jul 12 2008, 05:14 PM Post #30 |
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To Kamcco: No Cathy. I lead one of the teams. I originally thought it was team number 7 (bad memory) so I chose that screen name, but the Lord has since corrected me and told me I lead team #6 – too late to change my screen name though. There are 5 teams designated for the United States, one for the rest of the world (team #6) and one for Israel (team #7). Each team has a team leader, an assistant team leader and 2 witnesses. The 2 witnesses record all of what is going to happen through the efforts of the teams. I hope this helps. |
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| teamldr7 | Jul 12 2008, 05:20 PM Post #31 |
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To nightbird: I believe you heard the Lord in reference to California. Last night, the Lord told me that I could stop praying my extensive prayer list. He said that what was going to happen was locked in stone (concrete) and that the only prayers going to make any difference now were prayers of repentance etc. It truly is the time to go home. I have waited for this moment every day for a long time. He wakes me up in the middle of the night (every night) and it is the cry of my heart. He wakes me very early in the morning and it is still the cry of my heart. All day long I put my eyes on Him and ask how much longer and He always says in response that it is the time to go home. Maybe it will be today. |
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| nightbird | Jul 12 2008, 05:27 PM Post #32 |
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Amen, even so come quickly Lord Jesus. I'll look forward to seeing you at the throne. Edited by Wil, Jul 12 2008, 06:07 PM.
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| teamldr7 | Jul 12 2008, 06:34 PM Post #33 |
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To nightbird: I asked the Lord what it would take to save California from destruction. He quickly responded that if every person in California got on their faces and repented of their sins, then He would stop the coming destruction of the state. Not 10 people, or 100 or 1000, but every person. It just isn’t going to happen. |
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| kgreen20 | Jul 12 2008, 07:09 PM Post #34 |
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You probably have quite a bit to share with us, Keith, and it'll be interesting to see what. I disagree, though, that we're already in the Tribulation. We can't be, because, for one thing, the 7-year peace treaty between Israel and the Antichrist hasn't yet been signed and confirmed. That event officially starts the Tribulation, and no such event has occurred yet. And for another, since the Tribulation is the last 7 years of the Age of the Law, the time of Jacob's Trouble, it can't officially begin as long as the Church is still here. That's not to say we'll have tribulations--troubles--but the Tribulation will not begin until we, the Body of Christ, are removed. "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1st Thessalonians 5:9) As for praying a prayer to become a Christian, a lot depends on the person's state of heart when he prays the sinner's prayer. If he simply mouths words he doesn't mean, I can see where there would be a problem for him. But if he recognizes his need and prays that prayer to ask God to meet that need, God is not going to withhold salvation from him. This is pretty scary stuff, Keith. Hal Lindsey lives in California, and I know he's grieved by what California is doing. Tim LaHaye lives there, too, and I'm sure the same holds for true. So does Joni Eareckson. I hope God has plans to warn His own, to get them out of harm's way, before destroying the state. I'm thankful I don't have any relatives who live there! "It truly is the time to go home." Yeah--it's time to receive our new bodies and go Home in the Rapture, and I can't wait!!    
Edited by kgreen20, Jul 12 2008, 07:31 PM.
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| kgreen20 | Jul 12 2008, 07:58 PM Post #35 |
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Uh, Keith, I should like to post something here. You were talking about the Laodicean church in an earlier post. I thought you might be interested in knowing what Hal Lindsey has said about that in his 1973 book, There's a New World Coming. I'm going to post, below, an excerpt from from Chapter 3 of that book. EXCERPTS FROM CHAPTER 3: “PANORAMA OF CHURCH HISTORY—II” Laodicea: Compromise and Apostasy (14) And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, “These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the Creation of God: (15) I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot, I wish you were either cold or hot. (16) “So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spit you out of my mouth. (17) Because you say, ‘I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing,’ and do not realize that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked, (18) I counsel you to buy gold from Me that has been tried in the fire that you may be rich, and white raiment that you may be clothed and that the shame of your nakedness does not appear. And anoint your eyes with salve that you may see. (19) “As many as I love I rebuke and discipline. Be zealous therefore and repent. (20) Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will fellowship with him and he with Me. (21) To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, even as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (22) He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. REVELATION 3:14-22 Destination Laodicea was an extremely wealthy banking center about forty miles east of Ephesus. It had a medical school which was noted for a healing eye ointment. The city was very pleasure-conscious, with a huge race track and three lavish theaters, one of which was half again as large as a football field. Description of Christ Jesus first reveals Himself to this church as the “Amen,” which means “I believe,” and is usually spoken in response to some truth or promise of God. This affirmation was sadly lacking in this church, and Jesus emphasizes His own belief in the Father. This was meant to convict and rebuke the people into sounding their “Amens” to God. As the “Faithful and True Witness” of God’s truth, Jesus wanted these indifferent church members to also look at Him in a different light. Evidently they held Christ in low esteem and gave only casual consideration to His words. Jesus uses a name for Himself here that appears nowhere else in Scripture: “The Beginning of the Creation of God.” This church had become so satiated and smug with all its worldly possessions that it had forgotten its reason for existence was to proclaim the message that “God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son…” Commendation There’s not one word of commendation for this compromising, ingrown, unbelieving church. You’d think Jesus could come up with something to commend, but He hates compromise and spiritual indifference so intensely that He will not encourage them in any way. I feel sure this church was grinding away at doing their thing, oblivious to the fact that Christ had no part in their pitiful performance. Rebuke Most of this letter is divine denunciation. The Lord first rebukes the Laodiceans for being neither apathetic nor fervent. As witnesses for God, they were absolutely neutralized by their adoption of the world’s views. (How painfully this reminds me of the double-talk of neo-orthodoxy today, which takes the Biblical terms of our historic faith and subtly redefines them to cloak unbelief!) Jesus says that this kind of church nauseates Him and He will vomit this sham of a church out of His mouth. Next Christ rebukes the church for its focus on material wealth as the criterion for success. They had accumulated properties, buildings, and opulent appointments, thinking they were doing God a favor to call themselves His children! However, Jesus’ estimation of their true condition was much different than theirs: “You are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked.” What a contrast to Jesus’ appraisal of the church at Smyrna, the church that was materially poverty-stricken by spiritually rich! I’m sure it’s not too hard to see the lesson for churches today! Exhortation Christ’s exhortation is aimed more to individuals than to the church as a whole. Apparently the church was almost past reforming. Every now and then I talk to believers who are members of large, spiritually dying churches. Though they know the church isn’t giving them spiritual nourishment, they sometimes feel they should stay on and try to change the church. But I think Jesus is saying here that there is little hope for a church when the leadership lacks spiritual life or concern for God’s primary business of winning souls and building them in the faith. Jesus exhorts these Laodicean church members to “buy from Him gold that’s been tried in the fire” of testing. Peter explains what this testing is designed to do: “These trials are not only to test your faith, but to see whether it is strong and pure. It is being tested as fire tests gold and purifies it—and your faith is far more precious to God than mere gold (1 Peter 1:7, TLB) It appears that Jesus is urging these lukewarm, professing believers to pray for a little persecution in order to help them get their spiritual priorities in order. When fire is put to gold to refine it, the impurities rise to the top and can be skimmed off. This is what Jesus has in mind for this church! The Lord urges them to “buy white raiment to cover their spiritual nakedness.” This always reminds me of the fable of the emperor’s new clothes. You remember how he was hoodwinked into buying some beautiful and costly clothes that were reputedly invisible to fools and incompetents. He paraded down the streets of his city for everyone to see how regal he looked in his new wardrobe—but he was naked! This was really the case with the Laodicean church. They needed the covering of Christ’s white robes of righteousness which He freely gives to each person who receives Him as Savior from sin. Jesus further counseled these misguided religionists to “anoint their eyes with salve so they could see.” These people were familiar with the healing aspects of eye-salve since it was produced in their own city. Jesus used this as a symbol of healing their spiritually blind hearts. This can only occur by being born again through the Holy Spirit’s power. Jesus said, “Unless a man is born again, he can’t even see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). This letter to Laodicea also contains an exhortation to the real believers. They’re challenged to respond to God’s love as He expresses it in His discipline. They should have been grateful to receive God’s discipline because God chastens only His own children, as revealed in Hebrews 12:5-8. This is what the writer of Hebrews meant when he said, “My son, do not despise the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are corrected by Him, for whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and chastens every son whom He receives. But if you are without discipline, of which all God’s children are partakers, then you are b_______ and not God’s sons” (Hebrews 12: 5, 6, 8). One of the greatest symbolisms of Christianity is found in Christ’s exhortation to these dead, apostate church members. He addresses the church at large and the individual members specifically when He says, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and fellowship with him and he with Me.” The application usually made form this statement of Christ is that He’s waiting at the door of each human heart, seeking to be admitted to the life of each person who senses his spiritual emptiness and invites Jesus to enter and fill the void. This is a perfectly valid application, as the essence of being a Christian is having “Christ in you, the hope of glory” (Colossians 1:27). Promise Jesus speaks again about the glory in store for the overcomers in this church. They had to overcome a lot to be true believers in the midst of that carnal, sterile indifference to God. Yet they overcame by inviting Jesus into their lives. He says that these overcomers will one day sit on His throne with Him and rule with Him through eternity. No higher privilege will ever be granted to humans—and we’ll read more about its wonders in Chapter 21. Prophetic Application: A.D. 1900—Tribulation Near the turn of this century the scholars at many theological seminaries, particularly in Europe, began to introduce what they called “higher criticism” of the Scriptures. They were eager to examine the historicity and accuracy of the Biblical documents by using research methods developed in secular education. Many of the leading critics possessed, at best, a lukewarm relationship with Christ, and this was reflected in their hazy views of Scripture. The more open skeptics began to deny outright the supernatural aspects of the Biblical faith—all in the name of scholarship—and before long they had “demythologized” Jesus into a mere man. This Satanic infection spread like wildfire through the seminaries in Europe and the U.S., and by the 1920s it was echoing from the pulpits of American churches. The Western world was caught up in scientific and philosophical rationalism and the church got sucked into the vortex because so many of its leaders had never experienced a deep faith in Jesus. The sad truth is that thousands of churches around the world today call themselves Christian but Christ is nowhere to be found in them. Tragically, most of the unbelieving world look at them—and want no part of their sham. And I don’t either! Although this Laodicean lukewarmness is the predominant characteristic of the church age today, there are signs that the Philadelphian evangelistic fervor is reviving in these closing days of human history. That’s consistent with God’s pattern of always showering down grace before hurling blasts of judgment. The unbelievers of this era will find themselves enmeshed in the judgments of God during the Great Tribulation which is soon coming upon the earth. But everyone within this church age who is a true believer in Jesus will be taken out of the world before the judgment, and will be rewarded for his faith by spending eternity with Jesus. (pp. 49-54, Chapter 3: “Panorama of Church History—II,” There’s a New World Coming, by Hal Lindsey, © 1973) Edited by kgreen20, Jul 12 2008, 08:01 PM.
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| kamcco | Jul 12 2008, 08:36 PM Post #36 |
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Dear Keith, Thanks for the clarification on the 7 teams. So if I understand correctly, you will be (or already are) the team leader for team 6, which is the team for the world, minus Israel and the USA. That is huge! If that was my job, I don't think I would sleep. :) You must need lots of prayer pals. I have been a very lazy Christian for the last 2 1/2 years. I don't go to church outside the house and I don't have a good excuse as to why. I know that "Christians" or "fake Christians in the church" have really hurt me in the past and I don't want to be like them, or around them. It's a mess... I do LOVE JESUS though. I spend 2 to 3 hours a day listening to sermons and checking out endtime news. Sometimes I worry that I will miss the rapture altogether, but I pray daily that God would love me, see my aching heart, and give me strength to be the woman he desires me to be. Believe me, when I read all the postings (from everyone online) it helps me to get down on my knees to pray. Thanks to everyone for all the wonderful things I'm learning on this site. Cathy |
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| MoreofHim | Jul 12 2008, 08:53 PM Post #37 |
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Kammco, There's a thread here that you might find encouraging. In it many are sharing there experience of God calling them out... of churches, of mindsets, of worldly living. I hope that you find encouragement, comfort and strength to continue your walk with God. http://all-things-new.net/topic/6505271/1/ |
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| teamldr7 | Jul 12 2008, 09:04 PM Post #38 |
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Dear Cathy, I am sorry for the pain that other Christians have caused you. Many people have a tendency to talk without thinking first and even then, what they say wasn’t worth saying. I am glad that you love Jesus and are on your knees in prayer. You admit to being a lazy Christian for a few years. Well here is some good news: whenever the Lord tells me how He sees me, He tells me that He sees me as a completed Christian standing before Him, a warrior victorious. If He sees me that way, he sees you that way too. It is more important how you finish the race sometimes than how you ran it in the middle. If you have repented of your past sins and lifestyle, than He has already forgiven you. He is looking to see how you finish the race so put your face forward (not looking behind) and press towards the mark in Christ Jesus. If God could forgive Saul and turn him into Paul, than think what He can do for you and me. I will lift you before the throne and pray that in the coming days, you will stand as a bright light in the midst of the darkness. Keith |
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| kgreen20 | Jul 12 2008, 09:11 PM Post #39 |
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I could use your prayers, too, Keith. Thanks. |
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| teamldr7 | Jul 12 2008, 09:21 PM Post #40 |
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Kgreen20, It feels so impersonal imploring God for you and calling you kgreen20. Do you have a first name and any other information you want to share? You can email me at genesis6.8.9@gmail.com Keith |
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