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| A Warning from a Visionary; about Hell .. about Jesus | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 20 2006, 07:08 PM (2,453 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Dec 20 2006, 07:08 PM Post #1 |
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THIS WAS POSTED AT LYNN'S BOARD (Rapture in the Air) AND I THOUGHT IT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO TRANSFER OVER TO "ALL THINGS NEW" This is lengthy and comes in several pages. If it belongs elsewhere ... then move it accordingly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SERIOUS, SERIOUS DAYS . . . by Bernada Fernandez (MS-Word .DOC) (PDF) The text you are about to read, is the first part of the testimony of sister Bernarda Fernandez, who was privileged to be taken by Jesus Christ to visit the next world. THIS IS THE TESTIMONY OF MY FIRST JOURNEY I was not feeling well that morning, my husband refused to leave me on my own and go to work. I told him that I was not alone. After he left, I felt that I was dying. So I decided to phone some of my friends, and my mother-in-law. My mother-in-law answered: "Bernarda, God will bless you today, do not be afraid". The same answer came from another brother in Christ that I phoned, but he added: "Bernarda get up from your bed and praise the Lord, cry to Him and glorify Him". So, in spite of my lack of strength I cried to the Lord saying: "Lord You are my strength, come and help me". I tried to stand up, but my strength left me. My voice could no longer be heard but in my soul I was crying to the Lord to help me since I was dying. Suddenly my room was lit up of a light which looked like a fire. Immediately my fear vanished and I saw angels descending and walking in my room. I could hear them clearly speaking to each other, and suddenly a marvelous being appeared, more marvelous than angels. He was dressed in White with a golden sash. On His chest was written in gold: "FAITHFUL AND TRUE". His face was showing gentleness and Love. Jesus the CHRIST was in front of me, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Blessed be His name! Jesus approached me, touched my head and told me: "I am Jesus who died for you. Look at these marks in my hands, they are still there for you. I came down from my throne of glory to speak to you; there are many things in your life to put right. You are lazy and quick-tempered. Moreover, I do not want 25% Christian nor 95%, but 100%. If you want to go to heaven, you have to be holy as I myself am holy; I came to take you for a journey". I asked Him: "Lord is it a missionary journey?" He answered "No". Then He took me by my hands and lifted me up, and talked to me with simplicity and Love. He brought me as far as my windows, He looked at the city of New-York and I saw sadness on His face. He wept and said: "My Word is well preached, but people do not listen. The sin of this city has reached My Father". The city was full of homosexuals; among them were Politicians. The Lord told me: "It's another Sodom, but I am alive and the judgments of My Father will soon fall on this city". Then I knelt before the Lord while crying and He told me: "Do not be afraid. When judgment falls on this world, my Church will no longer be on earth". He then led me again towards my bed and asked me to phone a brother from my congregation. He gave me the name of the then brother. He then asked me to tell him that my spirit would come out of my body, and that they should not bring my corpse to the hospital or to any funeral ceremony. Instead, they should tell my husband to trust the one who is the Resurrection and the Life (John 11: 25). The Lord told me again: "I who give life, I take your spirit but you will come back and tell the peoples to trust me fully. The one who believes in me will never die" (John 11:26). He stretched His hands and I saw that another body came out of me. I was dressed in white and I was shining like the Lord, He told me: "Look! This is the body that Christians who obey my Word will soon have". I realized that I could go through the walls. The Lord who was holding me by my hand said: "Look"! When I turned, I saw my body without spirit. He explained to me that my physical body was worthless, it was nothing but dust, and that at death it will become dust again, as any physical body. He added that the new body I had was a glorious one which is the spirit He gave to man. I thought He would lead me straight to heaven, but it was not the case. We descended through a tunnel below the earth, and when approaching a certain place I could perceive an unbearable smell. I said: "Lord I do not want to go into that place". But we went in; that place was dark and not worth living. I heard people suffering, weeping and screaming. When we got to the end of the tunnel, we sat on a rock and the Lord told me: "Look"! I saw people suffering. In hell, people spend their time crying, and no one cares about others. Dear brothers and sisters, I just came to realize that HELL IS REAL. I wept and wept, and when I looked at the Lord, He told me: "Hold on to what you have seen, and do not forget it". I was looking at the hell, and people were screaming! It's forever! it's forever! Pain and hatred for ever and ever." I turned toward the Lord and asked Him: "Is there anyone from my family in this hell?" "Yes", said the Lord and I will allow you to see him. Suddenly I saw a young man coming from the depths of the hell: It was Alexander. I knew this young man at a crusade my husband and I attended in Dominica Republic. During that crusade, I heard a voice saying to me, "Get up, go and meet Alexander who is passing by. Tell him not to reject this message, for I'm giving him a last chance". This voice was the voice of the Lord even though I did not see Him. I told Alexander what the Lord told me. This is how he responded: "You Christians are all fools. You deceive people by telling them that Jesus Christ is coming, I, Alexander, do not believe this to be the truth". I told him: "Alexander, God gives liFe and takes it away when he wants; Alexander, you will soon die. He answered: "I am too young to die, I still have many good years of festivities on this earth." This chance was truly the last for Alexander. Dear reader, what do you know about yourself? Three weeks later, Alexander died while he was drunk. His destination was this place of torment where I saw him (hell). The Bible states clearly that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5: 21). When looking at people in hell, I could see Alexander attacked by two big worms. He was screaming!" He was tormented. He recognized me and told me: "I neglected my last chance. I am here today, suffering. Please, when you return to earth, go to my house and tell my family to believe in Jesus Christ and to obey His word, so that they will not come to this place of torment." Then the Lord showed me thousands of people who were suffering in hell, and He told me: "You see, some of these people knew Me when they were on earth. There are still a lot of people on earth who walk on the street without knowing where they go. Know that the way to heaven is very narrow, and it will be narrower again. There will be difficulties on earth, so that you will be as pure as gold, but fear not for I am ahead of you like a mighty warrior". I asked Him: "ARE THERE CHRISTIANS IN THIS HELL?", He answered: "Yes, do you know why? They believed in Me but they did not walk according to my Word. There are many, those Christians who only behave well when they are in the temple, in front of their pastors and their family. But they are greatly deceiving themselves. The eyes of my Father see everything and He understands every word, wherever you are. Tell my people that it's time they lived a holy life before my Father, before the devil and before the world. It's high time to seek holiness and consecration "(1 Peter 1: 14-16) Then we went where there was a lake of fire. As we were approaching the lake, I perceived a very bad smell and the Lord told me: "What you see there is a lake of fire, which is ready for the devil, the false prophet, and the Antichrist. I did not prepare this place for men, but all those who do not believe in me as their Savior and those who do not live according to my word will go there (Revelation 20:14)" At that moment I saw Jesus weeping and He told me again: "There are more lost than those who going to heaven". Then Jesus showed me the number of people who were dying in a minute and He told me: "Look! How many are lost! My Church is sleeping despite the fact that She has received my power; She has my word and the Holy Spirit, but She is sleeping. On earth there are people who preach that hell does not exist. Go and tell them that this place is real". I was very far from that place, but I could feel the heat. We left Hades and we went to heaven. We kept on going and went to the second heaven. In that heaven the Lord showed me the sun and the stars and He told: "Look at these stars, I call each one by its name. Do you see this sun, it's by my power that it shines both on the righteous and the wicked. But there will come a day when the sun will no longer shine, everything will be darkness". We went further and reached heaven where God lives. There, were beautiful houses. The walls of those houses were very high, of pure gold and of precious stones. There were twelve gates of pearls, with twelve angels at the gates. I thought I could not go in, but the Lord looked at me and said: "Do you want to go in? " "Oh yes Lord! I really want to." "Then get in, for I myself am the door" (John 10:9). At that moment I went in through a precious gate and I saw a garden of magnificent flowers. "Do you want to go in the garden? Then go in for I've prepared this for you and my people". When I stepped in, I started to pick some flowers and to arrange some bunches. I was running in the garden like a little girl. The flowers I picked had many colors with a very nice smell. After that, the Lord called someone. It was an angel, strong and so beautiful that I could not describe. The Lord told me: "Do you see this one, he is the Archangel Michael, he is the one who leads my army. Look again!" I saw a mighty army on horses and the Lord told me: "It's not a human army, but my Father's. This army is at the disposal of Christians who are REALLY born again; do not fear, for it is more powerful than the one which is in the world". Then He showed me another angel. "This one is the messenger of Christians who obey my word". I was happy to hear that. Jesus told me: "Be attentive! I am the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Elijah, the One who caused fire to fall from heaven; I have not changed. I am going to show you the condition in which my people live in these last days they've got left". The Lord told me: "Be very careful about the things I'm going to show you". I saw Christians who were weak and tired. The Lord asked me this question: "Do you believe that I can take this Church away in its present state?" Then He told me, "Christians that I will take away with me will be glorious, triumphant, spotless, blameless. Among my people there are lies, lack of love, my people are divided. I showed you the condition of Christians in these last days; Now I'm going to show you how the early Church lived. Those brothers and sisters were filled with the glory of God. They constantly fasted and prayed; they preached my word without any fear. Whereas present Christians think that I've changed, they also think that the Holy Spirit has changed. The big mistake of Christians today is the fact that they live a routine life, planned by human beings. Therefore they've forgotten that the messages are from the Holy Spirit and from above. Tell my servants, the pastors that time has come to put behind those routine programs. If they do, you will see the power of God in your midst, the Holy Spirit who was manifest in the early Church. He will perform signs, miracles and wonders in great number, causing the dead to rise. The Holy Spirit is still the same, it's you who have changed". |
 
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| Deleted User | Dec 20 2006, 07:09 PM Post #2 |
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cont) . Christians, it's high time you came back to the life of the early Church. I then left this beautiful garden and went to the lovely street of Gold and the Lord told me: "Touch! Yes it's pure Gold. Go and tell my children that VERY SOON, they are going to walk on these streets of gold by the hand of the One who gives life (Revelation 21:10-15)" Oh! How great it is to walk on those streets of gold! After that I saw a splendid Throne surrounded by Angels, Archangels and Seraphs. They were continually praising God, the One who was on the Throne, saying: "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty; heaven and earth are filled with his Glory. Amen!" Time has come to lift up holy hands unto me and praise me". At the same time I saw the river of the water of life flowing from the Throne. I also saw the tree of life and at the other end I saw the rainbow and the river of crystal. Then, I asked the Lord: "Who is on the throne?" He answered: "It's my Father, the Lord of Hosts". I told Him: "Can I see the Father", "No it's not yet time", the Lord answered. Even though I did not see the Father, the One who was on the throne was Mighty. I saw thunder and flashes of lightning coming from the throne and I heard praises. Jesus told me: "Do you hear these praises? These are the praises of those who are redeemed". I saw seven angels, each one of them holding a golden bowl; and seven others (angels), each holding a trumpet. "Lord, who are these angels?" The Lord answered: "The seven bowls that the angels hold are filled with the wrath of God. They will soon be poured out and when the trumpets sound, my Church (those Christians who live according to the will of my Father) will be caught up. They will no longer be on earth during the great tribulation. Before the Antichrist manifests himself, this man of sin, my Church will hear the last trumpets' sound, and they will meet me in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:16). I was there, dear friend, in front of a great throne, and I did not have any notion of time. A moment later Jesus showed me how His Church (the true believers) will be caught up! I saw in this vision, thousands of people disappearing. This happened world-wide, and TV and radio gave the news of the disappearance. Newspapers with (big headlines in red), also brought out the news. The Lord told me: "The news will soon happen". If the judgments of My Father have not yet come upon the earth, it's because of the faithful Christians, those who really love me." After that, I saw the appearance of the man of sin. He was saying to the inhabitants of the earth: "I'm bringing you peace and safety" and immediately people forgot the event that had just taken place. Jesus told me: "Look carefully!". I saw in the vision the seven angels with the seven bowls. Dear friend, what was happening was difficult to describe; I saw the angels pouring out the seven bowls of the wrath of God on the earth. Trumpets started sounding. God was pouring out His judgments on the inhabitants of the earth, and whole countries disappeared. The Lord told me: "Look! All these people were part of my Church, some were pastors". Because I did not fully understand this, I asked the Lord: "How is it that your people have been left so numerous in the great tribulation? How is it that there are also pastors among them, those who preached your word?" Jesus answered: "Yes, they had preached my word, but they were not living in accordance with my word." Then the Lord allowed me to see another multitude of pastors, and He told me: "Those pastors were not preaching my word as it is written. They thought that my word was not adapted to their century. They had too much favor towards those who were given a lot of tithes, because they were more interested in materials. Go and tell my servants that I am the One who called them, and that Silver and Gold belong to me and I give them according to my greatness and glory. Tell them to preach my word as it is written. They are many, those who give another interpretation to my word. My word is my word, and no one can change it. It must be preached as it is written. There are many among my people who distort my word for their own profit ". |
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| Deleted User | Dec 20 2006, 07:10 PM Post #3 |
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After that, we entered a lounge in that new Jerusalem and the Lord told me: "What you see is paradise". In Paradise I saw the apostles and I asked the Lord, Lord where is Abraham? I was expecting to see an old man, but suddenly I saw a young man aged about 25 approaching and Jesus told me, this is Abraham, the father of Faith. NOW, I AM GOING TO TALK ABOUT MY SECOND JOURNEY One day we were at a prayer meeting, we were twenty in number. As usual, we started by praising and worshiping the Lord. Suddenly we felt the presence of God. It was so powerful as if we were on the day of Pentecost. I remember that my husband's mother, who is well advanced in age and very devoted in the work of the Lord came to me and said: "Bernarda, let's keep the noise down during the praise for we're making a lot of noise". She was right, because the praise was like a sound of waterfall. As I was about to ask my brothers to keep the noise down, I heard the Lord telling me: "Don't say anything! In the world, when people are making noise, nobody cares, why then should you stop the praise?" We then carried on praising and worshiping the Lord, and I felt that something great would take place. Suddenly I remembered what the Lord told me on my first journey: "I'll come back for you". All of a sudden I saw a bright light flooding my home. My brothers also saw the light, and they all knelt down before this True and Faithful God. I did not know what to do, and I just stood still. That light became brighter, and took a human form. I had in front of me the Lord Jesus Christ whose look was beautiful and full of love. On earth, I have never seen such beauty on a man's face. He came closer to each of my brothers. As I was about to tell my brothers that the Lord came for me I started speaking in tongues. (1 Corinthians 14:39-40) The Lord came closer to me. Just by looking at me, my spirit left my body. I was in the air and I saw what was happening in my house. I saw people ringing my door's bell, and when my husband went to answer, two policemen were at the door. The policemen said: "We heard that a lady died here; that's why we came". My husband told them no, here we meet to worship and praise the Lord. The policemen did not really believe, but they could not enter. They said: "OK, carry on but do not make a lot of noise". I was in the air when I saw all this. Jesus took me by hands and we went towards the Dominican Republic. When we reached the city, the Lord told me: "There are two great sins this country commits before my Father, witchcraft and idolatry". I saw the people of that country running after sorcerers ... After that the Lord brought me to Venezuela and to Mexico. In Venezuela, I was in the air with Jesus, but I saw people turning to magic, and to witchcraft. In Mexico I saw people meeting and worshiping demons. The Lord told me: "The horror of this sin has reached my Father. The first sign I give as a warning is that there will be an earthquake in Mexico if the inhabitants of the country do not repent and come back to me". When I came back on earth, I went to Mexico and gave the message. The people did not listen and recently there was a terrible earthquake in Mexico. When we were still in the air, the Lord told me that the hands of his Father have been stretched out upon the inhabitants of the earth. I saw the sea with gigantic waves, resembling a monster. I also saw hurricanes happening on earth. I asked the Lord: "Lord what will become of Christians when all this happens?" He answered: "Go and tell them that, for those who are faithful to me, not a hair on their heads will be touched". After that the Lord brought me to another place, I saw places where the earth was split. The Lord told me: "Many countries will soon be wiped out". Then we left that place and went to another place where waters were in motion. We went by these waters through a tunnel and reached the depths of the earth. I saw great doors. It was not the same as those I saw during my first journey. On these doors were big chains. The Lord went towards the doors, and after he had removed the chains, He let me in through the tunnel. Dear brothers and sisters, I saw thousands of people, with their heads down, wearing torn clothes. They were chained, with big chains whose noise could lead to deafness. Then I said: "Lord, what does this mean?" He answered: "All these men and women are on their way to hell". Among those who were on their way to hell, I saw my husband's senior brother, Adolfo. He was a difficult man, he used to get married and divorced when he wanted, and he used to curse God. Then I started pleading with the Lord to let me go back on earth and warn Adolfo that he was going to hell, but the Lord did not answer me. Again I saw Adolfo and his wife walking through the tunnel. They were at the edge of hell. I pleaded with the Lord again to let me go back on the earth and tell people what I have seen. The Lord lifted his hands up and said: "Go and tell them that time is nearly over". He said again: "Thousands and thousands of people will go to hell, Adolfo's time is over, he is going to die". When I came on earth, my brother in law, Adolfo did not want to change his way of living. One day, he quickly came home from work and said to his wife: "I can't work any longer, something is telling me that I'm going to die". His wife answered: "It's because you are drunk as usual that you're saying this". Both of them went to bed. Some minutes later, she had a vision. In her vision she saw her husband and she in a tunnel, clothed with shabby clothes, and going to hell. She heard the Lord telling her: "Time for both of you is over". Suddenly, Jesus and I left that place to the first heaven, and then to the second heaven. When we reached the third heaven, I saw angels bustling from one side to the other; then I asked the Lord: "Why are these angels in motion?" Jesus answered: "It's true that my angels are in motion here, but I'm going to show you how the earth is also in motion. Be careful because many demons have invaded the earth. The devil is furious against Christians because he has little time left". The Lord allowed me to see those demons in a terrible anger, and He told me: "Those demons you see are demons of adultery. They will attack thousands of My servants and many will fall into that sin. Do you know why the devil succeeds in causing my servants to fall? It is because my servants do not give me all the glory. They steal my glory and become proud. (1 Timothy 2:11-14) I saw thousands of angels that I could not count, there were many of them ready for the battle. Then Jesus told me: "Now I'm sending these thousands of angels on the earth to protect my people. In these last days, I will double the protection. Satan also will double his attacks, but you should not forget that your God is great and mighty. If you are attached to Him nothing will happen to you". The Lord then brought me to another place. There, I saw a huge table rounded with golden chairs. On each chair, a name was written, and a robe of fine linen was also placed. In front of each chair, on the table I saw crowns. Then I noticed that there was a chair that was bigger than others. In front of that chair was a huge cup in gold. Jesus told me to go and see what is in the cup. It was full of wine, ready to be served. Jesus told me: "Do you know why the wine is ready to be served? Go and tell my people that I am at the door, I'm coming soon". The Lord gave me a robe of fine linen and a crown. I wore the robe and the crown, then the Lord brought me to another place where I saw things like in a mirror. He told me: "There's neither stain nor crease on your robe, is there? None will enter through this door nor take place at this table, unless he is clothed like this. Some among my people on earth have dirtied their robes. Others have crumpled robes, and still others have put theirs aside, and have forgotten them. Tell my people that it's time they washed their robes, ironed them and took them back. Christians should ask the Holy Spirit to help them keep their robes in good state, because the King will soon celebrate the Marriage Supper in His Father's kingdom". I come from a divorced family and I grew up with my father. My mother was a very "religious" woman. As for my father, he believed in nothing. I cried before the Lord and told Him: "Lord my mother is lost, yet I've preached the Gospel to her but she won't listen. More and more she is clung to that pagan "religion". The Lord answered me: "I will save your mother, but I will take her home immediately otherwise she will fall back into sin and go to hell. For this reason, as soon as she is converted, she will die some time later and come here, in paradise". When I came back on earth, I prayed, cried, sighed, reminding the Lord the promise he gave me, but I saw my mother who was more and more involved in the idolatry of her religion. One day God used my son to convert my mother. Just three days after her conversion, she died; praise the Lord! During my second journey in paradise the Lord told me: "Look, what my mouth says, my hands fulfill it". I saw my mother in that beautiful paradise; she was among other women. Then the Lord led me in an area in the paradise. There I saw thousands of children clothed in white who were praising and glorifying the Lord. Jesus told me: "These children are those who have been aborted by parents and criminal doctors. Babies that people killed whilst they are still in their mother's womb, and that are found in dustbins and rivers, are here in heaven." Dear brothers and sisters, the Lord says a fetus is a human being from conception, from the first day of pregnancy. Jesus told me again: "Bernarda, work! . . for I am your strength. This message has to be published into the whole world. It's a message for Christians, pastors, and for all the inhabitants of the earth, including you. Let him who is holy continue to be holy." At that moment the gates of heaven were opened. There was a beautiful escalator. Jesus called thousands of angels who came, and then the Lord accompanied me to my home. When we got home, I saw my husband and the Christian brothers who were waiting for my spirit to come. I looked at my physical body that remained on earth, and I told the Lord that I do no longer want this body. The Lord told me: "You cannot go back to heaven with me for it is not your time yet. You have to tell my people first what you saw in order for them to get ready". With a powerful voice, He told me: "Enter and receive life, I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live (John 11: 25-26). |
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| Abbershay | Dec 20 2006, 08:52 PM Post #4 |
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The one who believes in me will never die" (John 11:26). He stretched His hands and I saw that another body came out of me. 1. I asked Him: "ARE THERE CHRISTIANS IN THIS HELL?", He answered: "Yes, do you know why? They believed in Me but they did not walk according to my Word. 1. This next part makes it look like being drunk is what lands him in hell not the fact that he rejected Jesus........... seems to me his attitude twords Jesus is far worse that being drunk . This voice was the voice of the Lord even though I did not see Him. I told Alexander what the Lord told me. This is how he responded: "You Christians are all fools. You deceive people by telling them that Jesus Christ is coming, I, Alexander, do not believe this to be the truth". I told him: "Alexander, God gives liFe and takes it away when he wants; Alexander, you will soon die. He answered: "I am too young to die, I still have many good years of festivities on this earth." This chance was truly the last for Alexander. Dear reader, what do you know about yourself? Three weeks later, Alexander died while he was drunk. His destination was this place of torment where I saw him (hell). The Bible states clearly that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5: 21). 1. We left Hades and we went to heaven 1. Hades is not hell ,Sheol is the place that is being discribed here , hades was actually the place in the heart of the earth where people went when they died before Yeshua came and rose from the dead. |
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| OnTheHorizon | Dec 21 2006, 12:27 AM Post #5 |
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Hi Summer girl. Long time no see.  I haven't heard of Rapture in the Air message board. Do you have a link to it? 
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| Wil | Dec 21 2006, 12:43 AM Post #6 |
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Horizon its in the links section. |
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| loveroftruth | Dec 21 2006, 06:09 AM Post #7 |
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There was so much in this writting that set of alerts...
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| "Why are your trying so hard to fit in when you were created to stand out?" | |
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| Deleted User | Dec 21 2006, 11:50 AM Post #8 |
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That is what I thought, too. As Abbershay pointed out, Hades is not Hell. I believe the lady was confused on this issue, as many of us have been in the past. I once thought they were one and the same place. Also, re: being drunk and heading for hell.... That Galatians scripture has it down clearly and if one is non-Christian, one tends to drink to excess, and therefore is on that road, anyhow. Not a pretty sight. 
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| Abbershay | Dec 21 2006, 01:04 PM Post #9 |
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If you are born again and get drunk doesnt send you to hell......... thats not what gations is saying. Now i want to say that getting drunk is not a great thing to do for anyone . And there are differnt levels of being drunk. Also getting drunk and being a drunkard are 2 different things. If we look at gal 5/21 we shall see that they are talking about more than just drinking. Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God It is funny strange how the being drunk brings more attention than the rebellion against God . We know that the works of the flesh are contrary to the spirit. So what are the works of the flesh? Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. read all of Galations 5 also read Romans 8 we dont want to do the works of the flesh but while we are still here we still end up doing them. We fight against them inside ourselves until we become one in Christ . |
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| sonchild | Dec 21 2006, 02:19 PM Post #10 |
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Well, if the blood of Jesus isn't enough, then an awful lot of people will not be in heaven. Thinking now, about the alcoholic who becomes a Christian and is set free of this malady. Then, some tragedy happens in his or a loved ones life and he slips and drinks again, becoming an alcoholic again. His faith in God is intact but now he has to be delivered from alcoholism spirit or as most deliverance ministers call it ...a controlling spirit. What then, I am wondering from this lady's dream...what her dream would say about him . Then to make it harder, if this spirit comes out, is the blood of Jesus now effective once again? It is too much for moi. Going to have to continue to depend on His Righteousness in me and the blood that Jesus shed. Then we have to also remember that only God knows our hearts and that He does judge us also by the thoughts and intents of our hearts, whereas we tend to judge by what we see or hear about someone. What's some thoughts on this, I wonder? I really need to go back and re-read that dream several times and sort it out carefully as to what was really said! |
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| Deleted User | Dec 21 2006, 04:27 PM Post #11 |
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 It's too much for 'moi' also, Son Child. This kind of puts it in a nutshell: Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. My feeling, wrong though it may be, is that once you are born again, you don't fulfill the 'lust of the flesh.' NO matter what circumstances knock you down for the count. You just rise up and follow through on Kipling's stanzas in the poem "If" (which are lengthy but wise.) Jesus has stated, I believe, that nothing impure will enter the Kingdom of God. He wants His Bride to be chaste and pure, undefiled. He wants His Temple (our bodies) to be without blemish. We strive for this daily, and as you said, God knows our hearts and is our judge. How God can ever forgive those who have horribly abused children and animals and people, in utterly evil ways, is not in my comprehension. I just don't see how a loving God, no matter if He is the Creator of the Universe and has love for His creation beyond our understanding, could EVER find it in His infinite Wisdom, magnanimous Kindness, to forgive such evil .... even if those evil doers repent a thousand times. But then, that's mortal me speaking. And just maybe, just maybe, there IS a limit to His outstretched Hand of Forgiveness. He did say that it's better to be weighed down with a stone than to hurt one of the little ones. That doesn't sound like a whole lot of leniency there. 
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| Abbershay | Dec 21 2006, 05:02 PM Post #12 |
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I think you are mixing the saved and the unsaved. When it comes to this issue , It seems to me that the way to look at it is ,there are other forces involved , though we are sinful by nature there are other forces trying with all their might to do us in. My thoughts when i look at some of the evil in the world that people do to eachother it makes me want to hate them ...... However the hate for them may very well be misplaced . These evils are to deep for any human to accomplish, it has to be done by demons... If these people were totally in bondage to them they are ones that are being tormented . They must hate the things that are done in their body but are forced to endure it because they have never gotten deliverance from them. This is very hard to understand with your own human eye. But it must be true for God says we fight not against flesh and blood but powers and pricipalities in high places...... |
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| loveroftruth | Dec 21 2006, 05:17 PM Post #13 |
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I so believe God looks at the heart. I have had so many revalations about this - one time the Lord took me back to remember something I did before I was saved - and it was just horrable, but He spoke to me that "at that time" I could not "SEE" that this was bad. Then He brought to my mind Jesus on the Cross saying "father forgive them for they know not what they do" And the understanding I got was that "THEY REALLY did not know what they did" You see, we can not see unless we can see - and the question is, are we accountable for that we have yet to be able to see  And, God, being AGAPE and our FATHER and our CREATOR looks at the heart and knows why that person drinks (the deep wounds and shame) or the person who hates or the person who jumps in the sack with a ton of people or the homosexual - all these issues are deep wounds, deep hurts, does not our creator see deep into the person? When the musliems were rioting over the cartoons of Muhommed, I saw some on CNN......... The Lord spoke to me that these men who were rioting and angry were once little innocent boys, just like ours with dream and hopes only to be taught anger and hate - so this is what is now manifesting, that which they were taught. Anyways - these things I have shared have really allowed me to see deeper into the roots and maybe a little how God see things. thoughts
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| sonchild | Dec 21 2006, 08:06 PM Post #14 |
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We know that God IS love, it's not that He just loves us...He is LOVE personified. He cannot act otherwise except as what He really is. He is also, because of being Love is Full of Compassion (for everyone). He is merciful (because He IS Love). He knows our hearts inside and out (our spirits). Only our spirits (the real us) are born again. Our flesh is never born again. We are told to put the flesh or the body under subjection to the born again spirit. Being triune, body, soul, and spirit, and having to deal with demon powers trying our entire lives to destroy us (He sees us as the body of Jesus, which we are). Since we are who we are, he is out to kill us, steal from us, and destroy us totally. I know we all know that, but these are things that God considers. He knows also (how well he knows iti), that we are made out of dust. A thought on righteousness. The only righteousness we will ever have is the righteousness of God IN CHRIST. We cannot work our way into a state of righteousnes EVER. The newest newborn baby in Christ gets His righteousness when He is born again.....He doesn't earn it by good works. It is a gift from God and it is ALL by the grace of God. So, the righteousness we have is all God's doing. There isn't a single thing connected with righteousness that any of us can brag about. It is God's doing, not ours. But for His grace, the goodness of God would not rest upon us ....with the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin. We can't even be born again without the grace of God. We can trample on God's grace when we are disobedient, and everyone of us does. We are His and He is ours, yet does anyone even know of a person who hasn't sinned since they were born again? I know of some who claim they haven't, but it's because they do not realize that it is our spirits that are born again, that is without spot or blemish. When God sees moi, He sees me washed with the very blood of Jesus and covered with that blood. He sees Jesus. Well, I can see I am just basically rambling and thought writing. I had a flashing red light when I read that dream in especially one area, but this is too long. If it were me, I wouldn't read a post this long. :rolleyes: 555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555 LOVEOFTRUTH.....I am detecting that you know what compassion is, that you understand the compassion God has for us and that iHe has spilled over into your life, enabling you to feel that same compassion for others. It has given you great understanding of the person who is demonized by possession and oppression, who has wounded spirits and who do not know how to deal with it, who have hurts in their lives that we cannot imagine if they did not happen to us. Mercy always triumphs over judgment.   Summer, you always provoke thought and prayer with your own thoughts and it causes us to dig in the Word, to open our ears to the Spirit, and to want to have eyes and ears to hear! |
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| Deleted User | Dec 21 2006, 09:47 PM Post #15 |
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SonChild, It just seems so cut and dried to me... you become God's child... you don't sin. You can be tempted, just as Jesus was tempted (in a manner of speaking) my interpretation of that is ....and always has been.. that.... Satan did the ACT of TEMPTING.. but Jesus was NOT tempted, of Himself. He experienced the realization that Satan was throwing the best he had ... (lol) at Him, but being God, in the Flesh, He was NOT nor did He feel inclined to be tempted. There is a difference in ... shall we say... the tenses. Someone once said that there is NO degree or level to sin... Sin is Sin. Perhaps so... however, I wonder how God thinks when He sees the perversions and tortures and inhumanity on Earth. Bet He sometimes wishes He had kept only the animals on Noah's Ark. :rolleyes: |
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| loveroftruth | Dec 22 2006, 06:27 AM Post #16 |
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Hey, Great stuff SonChild, summer-girl, onthehorizon and Abbershay!!! Summer-Girl I dont believe we see all our sin. Like today I maybe sinned when i didnt see myself as God does. Or when for just a moment, I had a bit of fear about what my work would require next year (fear is opposite of faith and sin) Or how about when I didnt say something special to someone that God wanted me to speak to - I was not obedient. Or how about when i got frustrated with my mom becuase she sounded like a broken recorded telling me the same old same old - this was sin as I was not honoring her. You see, sin is not just the obvious, sin is anything we agree with that goes against the knowledge of God and what He says...... I have to say I unintensionally sin all day long by excepting those thoughts in my mind that go against Gods. NOW - When we are believers we are set free from the power of sin and death - is that correct? And maybe the word is telling us that our sin is no longer seen? And Sin no longer has power over us (The consiquenses of that sin)? I dont know much about that - yet I do know that, I am no longer sin conscience, becuase it is not about that, the thing you focus on is the thing that becomes your idol - focus on Him and you will do well, focus on yourself and your no sinning and those both will become your idol We have the laws written on our hearts - we must follow that, and we will see stuff we need to see God sees really deep inside, and sees beyond the manifestation to see the root, it is in Him, to heal and deliver the root. Does the word not say He is the Author and finisher of our faith? Look at how Jesus treated the Pharasis who thought they did not sin, and look at how Jesus treated the prostitues and drunks - Jesus had more compassion for the sick then the religous, He was telling them that they thought will all their doings that they were right with God, yet, they were not......... thoughts?
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| sonchild | Dec 22 2006, 08:13 AM Post #17 |
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To my own knowledge, I have never made it thru a single day with some sort of sin.....and this after I became born again. Good example today: Had to be at a lab this morning before 9:30AM to get a bit of blood testing done. Well, I did that, had to wait a while longer than usual, and then went with daughter to a couple of stores to pick up some things we needed. I was in the line for a cashier and had waited about 20 minutes and was annoyed. I didn't say anything then, but the thoughts of my heart was not good toward this cashier. I thought she was wasting time. Then, just as I was up for my turn, a fellow breezes up and says he has to be waited on first because he "is in a hurry". She waited on him and he hadn't stood in line even 1 minute and so then I had to wait on him. There was a mini argument over the price and that all had to be checked out and redone ' on the register and I was fuming. I said to him "You aren't any busier than anyone else. You should have stood in line like the rest of us had to." He said, "I have important things to do." I said, "Your things aren't any more important than anyone else's." I was cutting to the clerk and I could see she was stressed to the max. I knew I should shut up and I didn't. Is this a sin. Yes , it was. I probably hurt the clerks feelings and made others uncomfortable. After all, some had come in line behind me...maybe 5 or 6. What should I have done or said? Nothing. I finished and went to the car, and sat there re living the mess and had to go back in and apologize to the clerk.... just a girl trying to make a living. The apology probably didn't help her too much, because it was late for one thing. She had all of this pressure on her from all of those in line and it made her day a little harder. Heb.4 [12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heartB] Do youthink I could have witnessed to anyone in those lines? Who would have listened? The worst example possible of a Christian. I asked God to forgive me and I know He did, but then what about those people some with great troubles, worries I knew nothing about. God saw that. The Spirit was right there and convicted me immediately, but I waited to come back in and apologize and some of them had left by then. That was strife caused by me, hurt feelings caused by me, stress for the little cashier and in the end it stressed me to no end. Paul would know what I am talking about. He tried to explain his battle with the flesh saying that the things he wanted to do...he would not and the things he would not do....he ended up doing. Then he admonishes all to continue running for the "prize". This battle never ends with the flesh, but it is most helpful to read some everyday in the Word and keep our minds renewed with it. When the Word is constantly in us and coming in every day it does help. In this sinful thing today, I don't believe it was demons , but just my flesh interrupting the things of the Spirit and other peoples lives and business. In the Old Testament, they just sacrifice for a sin committed. For instance if they had murder in their hearts, it wasn't a sin unless it was actually committed. Now, in our present covenant, if we hate someone in our hearts , it is counted to us that we have committed murder. These thoughts of our hearts and the intents of our actions count to the max. Years ago, a dear friend of my mother who was also the mother of a now very famous minister of the gospel taught us a lot of things about this. She said one day that the phone rang and it was a friend she hadn't called in a year. She was very busy with Bible Studies,etc. and just neglected to call the friend. When she heard the friend's voice, she said, "Oh I am so glad to hear from you. I have been thinking about you all day and intending to call you for months." lol lol That was a lie. Was it a sin? yes it was. Now, she was probably trying to make the lady feel good, but we need to bridle our tongues constantly. She had such a problem with this and when she went to a camp meeting, she asked for a lying spirit to be cast out of her. :lol: :lol: Really, she later found from the Spirit that she needed to stop saying things just to make someone feel better, and just tell the truth, which she worked on for over 10 years just about constantly. She made us aware of a lot of things in this regard. In those days, we hardly knew what was flesh and what was the acts of demon spirits. But these demons are very real and they do interact just as much as sthey possibly to thwart the gospel from going forth, to make Christians look like morons, and worse. They are everywhere, but we sometimes don't need their influence as we do enough ignorant things on our own. I finally just ask the Spirit to show me instantly when I am sinning, because some things we will never see if He doesn't show us. |
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| loveroftruth | Dec 22 2006, 08:30 AM Post #18 |
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:amen       :good posting 
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| "Why are your trying so hard to fit in when you were created to stand out?" | |
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| sonchild | Dec 22 2006, 09:57 AM Post #19 |
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I was surfing around, asking Holy Spirit to give me something to bless all of us, to help us, to teach us. I wasn't looking for a particular thing, but I found one that kind of goes along with my dilemma yesterday, and so I figure some others may be in same predicament as fighting flesh,etc. So, I posted it under prophetic Words, because it is a Word from the Lord. It is about Mercy Triumphing over Judgment and as I recall, I did in fact use those same words in a post here. That's how I knew it was of the Spirit to post. If you want to read go to http://all-things-new.net/index.php?showtopic=5589 |
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| Deleted User | Dec 22 2006, 11:37 AM Post #20 |
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Let's all read I John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him. and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." and read on to the next verse... and Hebrews 10:26 is a good one to meditate upon. My Living Bible translates it: "If anyone sin deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ's death; there is no way to get rid of it." We should not confuse human frailities with the darkness of sinful acts. None of us would attain the Kingdom if we were judged as sinners by our daily vulnerabilities. Yes, Jesus' blood covers our sins, but we should not confuse sin with human weaknesses... i.e. thinking someone is being rude while driving or not noticing that our parents need a connection with us, etc. 
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