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| David Wilkerson Rapture Dream | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 29 2005, 06:56 PM (7,314 Views) | |
| bassplayer | Sep 15 2009, 04:56 PM Post #61 |
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I just wish people would put the words of Jesus Christ above all these crazy ideas (Matthew 24:29-31.) Start with the plain, simple truth instead of wishful thinking. |
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| gibby62 | Sep 15 2009, 05:30 PM Post #62 |
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You can't take just a couple of versus from the Bible and call your study complete. |
| Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Eph 6:11-12 | |
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| bassplayer | Sep 15 2009, 06:15 PM Post #63 |
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And you can't take a dozen other verses out of that same bible and override what the Lord himself said. Either your theory's correct and Jesus is a liar, or Jesus is correct and you (or your guru) is a liar. |
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| bassplayer | Sep 15 2009, 06:18 PM Post #64 |
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Disprove this please... From Wikipedia: Some Pre-Tribulation proponents maintain that the earliest known extra-Biblical reference to the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is from a sermon falsely attributed to the fourth-century Church Father Ephraem the Syrian, which says, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."[12][13] However, the interpretation of this writing, as supporting Pre-Tribulation rapture, is debated.[citation needed][14] There exist at least one 18th century and two 19th century Pre-Tribulation references, in a book published in 1788, in the writings of a Catholic priest Emmanuel Lacunza [15] in 1812, and by John Nelson Darby himself in 1827.[16] However, both the book published in 1788 and the writings of Lacunza have opposing views regarding their interpretations. The rise in belief in the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is sometimes attributed to a 15-year old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald (a follower of Edward Irving), who in 1830 had a vision that was first published in 1840, and again in 1861.[17] The popularization of the term is associated with the teaching of John Nelson Darby, prominent among the Plymouth Brethren, and the rise of premillennialism and dispensationalism in English-speaking churches at the end of the 19th century. In 1908, the doctrine of the rapture was further popularized by an evangelist named William Eugene Blackstone, whose book, Jesus is Coming, sold more than one million copies. The first known theological use of the word "rapture" in print occurs with the Scofield Reference Bible of 1909.[18] |
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| gibby62 | Sep 15 2009, 06:30 PM Post #65 |
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bassplayer, Because I say that study is needed and verses should not be taken out of context, I do NOT believe that warrants being called a liar. I do not appreciate the insult. Please watch your tone. Also, you have already been alerted to the fact that debate on rapture should be contained in the Bible Discussion thread. |
| Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Eph 6:11-12 | |
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| Pinky1441 | Sep 15 2009, 06:32 PM Post #66 |
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Wil..... |
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PINKY | |
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| Wil | Sep 15 2009, 08:49 PM Post #67 |
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Bassplayer a lie is a falsehood that is knowingly said in order to deceive, debatable doctrinal views among christians do not fit this definition, every side sincerely believes that their view is the scripturally one, please take note of this while presenting your views here, thanks, and feel free to respectfully bring up your reasonings for your rapture view in BD if you (or anybody else) wishes to continue this discussion. - |
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| sweetcapner | Sep 15 2009, 10:02 PM Post #68 |
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Let you know that It sadden me the most is that people in this forums has been agruing or debating over the Rapture. I tell you something is that Jesus just want us to be ready for Him to come for us and He asks us to look at Jesus daily and asks us to worship Him. That s why Jesus is praying for all of us because there is silly debating over this and make us mad at each other. It is not right. We are In His Body and we should not be divided or break up the body that We are supposed to live for Jesus. Do not let Satan trying to destroy us through the silly debate something like that because Satan is trying to lurking us away from God and causing more problems. Do not let Satan destroy, steal and kill John 10: 10 i think i hope i am right about the verse. but i do remember the verse saying Satan destroy and steal and kill, Jesus gives us the abundance life. That what Jesus wants us to have that. So I encourage you guys please please stop it and focus on Jesus Christ and I know we are looking forwarding for the day that will happen. I am telling you It will happen one day. I have no doubts of that as I believe that Jesus wants us to go and bring people to Jesus and Jesus didnt want us to fight over those debates because many many people are dying without Jesus everyday. Can you afford to ignore this or just do what Jesus wants us to do. I am sorry if I am blunt saying this. because it is breaking my heart so hard. thanks for your cooperate if you feel offended i am sorry forgive me. SC |
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| gibby62 | Sep 15 2009, 11:14 PM Post #69 |
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sweetcapner: When new people come on to the board, we often find have these same types of discussions. The ones that have been here a while know it is not a salvation matter, but always, like the Bereans, are searching for the answers and studying. I find these discussions helpful as I feel it is iron sharpening iron as long as it is respectful. Agreeing to disagree at times on matters not related to salvation is not a bad thing. |
| Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Eph 6:11-12 | |
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| bassplayer | Sep 16 2009, 10:10 AM Post #70 |
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It saddens me that, despite the overwhelming evidence that the pretribulation rapture idea is a manmade one that appeared around the year 1800, people cling to it with such tenacity. I went along with the pretribulation rapture the first three or four years after I became a believer because I didn't know any better. I figured that my church pastor knew more than I did about the subject. But as it turns out, the pretribulation rapture is just one part of the whole dispensational ball of wax. It's a key part of a manmade template that has been overlaid upon the scriptures, allegedly for the purpose "rightly dividing the word of truth." I'm pretty sure the Pharisees did the same thing. That's why, when Jesus was revealed among them, they rejected him - he didn't fit their manmade concept of what the messiah should look like and act like. I dare anybody to kick the props out from under the manmade pretribulation theory and reread the scriptures, especially Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, and then explain how such an idea fits into the words of the Lord. Remember, this is the same person who will be coming back in such a way that every person alive on the planet will know it's him (Matt 24:30, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, 1 Thes 4:17, Rev 1:7) There won't be any "secret rapture." There also won't be two, three, or four different second comings of Jesus. There will be only one. So, we have this same Jesus explaining to his closest disciples the exact order in which future events will unfold. (Reread Matt 24:3-31, Mark 13:4-27, Luke 21:7-28 please.) Notice that, in all three eyewitness accounts, Jesus has himself returning after all of the events we like to to call "the tribulation." That's: Matt 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, and Luke 21:25-28. The order is exactly the same in all three accounts. Were the disciples drunken, confused, misled? I don't think so. There is no air elevator out of here before "the tribulation." Does that mean there's no rapture at all? No, of course not. It's right there in Matt 24:31, Mark 13:27, and Luke 21:28. It just isn't where everybody wants it to be. Jesus will return in the clouds with great glory. The last trumpet will be sounded by an angel. Then the saints will be lifted up to meet Jesus in the air. That's "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matt 24:29.) Please notice that the events described in Matt 24:29, Mark 13:24, and Luke 21:25 are the same events described in Revelation 6:12. Those events are THE KEY to the timing of Jesus's return. He returns after Revelation 6:12 - not at Revelation 4:1. The same events are also described in Isaiah 13:10, Ezekial 32:7, and Joel 2:31. They are always associated with "the day of the Lord." Jesus returns right after the sun and moon are darkened. That's what my bible says. |
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| bassplayer | Sep 16 2009, 10:12 AM Post #71 |
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Maybe the webmaster should just move this thread over the bible discussion since everybody, from David Wilkerson onward, has been discussing the taboo subject here. |
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| kgreen20 | Sep 16 2009, 11:24 AM Post #72 |
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Wil can remove the posts in this thread that have been discussing the forbidden subject and paste them together into their own thread in Bible Discussions. He's done it before. Wil, would you do that? Edited by kgreen20, Sep 16 2009, 11:25 AM.
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“God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel” | |
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| bassplayer | Sep 17 2009, 02:17 PM Post #73 |
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I'm done here. Please go to Bible Discussion to see the thread over there that I have started. It's growing rapidly as people see that this is a relevant topic now that we are in the second Great Depression and World War III is probably what follows it. |
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| KimR | Sep 17 2009, 03:19 PM Post #74 |
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Bassplayer, this may be a relavant topic for you but it is not for some of us. I am not pre, mid, or posttrib but I am ready when Jesus comes. My own opinion is that it is not going to happen for a while and we need to be ready so we can face what it about to happen to this nation. I do not need to hear about how pre-trib is false on every thread. BTW, you are not going to convince anyone to not be pre-trib by the approach you are taking. I believe people will find out for themselves soon enough anyway. -Kim |
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| sweetcapner | Sep 17 2009, 05:45 PM Post #75 |
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Kim, i agree with you completely, I know that Jesus is coming back for us and we have to be ready for Him. There is no time to quarrel over things we are supposed to focus on Him right. do you agree? |
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| KimR | Sep 17 2009, 08:22 PM Post #76 |
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sweetcapner, I agree 100%!!! |
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| Wil | Sep 17 2009, 10:59 PM Post #77 |
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Amen to both of your posts, bassplayer take heed. |
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3:56 AM Sep 4
