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| David Wilkerson Rapture Dream | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 29 2005, 06:56 PM (7,302 Views) | |
| sweetcapner | Aug 29 2008, 11:25 PM Post #41 |
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can you type that sermon for me as i cant hear as i am deaf lady so can you do that if anyone who is willing do this. as i would love to read it thanks. Sweetcapner |
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| Kdana | Aug 29 2008, 11:46 PM Post #42 |
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I think post-trib believers just want pre-trib believers not to lose faith if we're still here. If we're still here - will pre-tribbers recognize the anti-christ or will they think it can't be him. I'm just glad my salvation doesn't rest on this point! I'd like to be ready and prepared to stay or go however it turns out 
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| kgreen20 | Aug 30 2008, 12:13 AM Post #43 |
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No danger of that happening--we won't be! =) I'd like to read what he said, too. Edited by kgreen20, Aug 30 2008, 12:13 AM.
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“God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel” | |
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| Wil | Aug 30 2008, 12:21 AM Post #44 |
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Kdana only those who are not firmly grounded in Him would lose their faith if pre-trib is wrong. But that would also be the case for those of other views, as the parable of the sower of the seeds show any sort of tribulation, prior to he Great one or not, would make them fall away. The sermon is probably the one that I transcribed, as it has the same title, Be Ye Ready. |
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| kgreen20 | Aug 30 2008, 12:29 AM Post #45 |
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Wil, could you post a link to it here? |
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“God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel” | |
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| Wil | Aug 30 2008, 12:31 AM Post #46 |
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It's the opening post in this thread Kathy. |
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| DaveLovesJesus | Aug 30 2008, 01:33 AM Post #47 |
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Yes it is. I verified it. I just enjoyed hearing his honesty and how much this dream meant to him. It's the only reason why I posted the mp3. God bless, DaveLovesJesus |
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| kgreen20 | Aug 30 2008, 12:57 PM Post #48 |
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LOL! OK. Thanks, Wil.  |
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“God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel” | |
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| Banty Hen | Aug 30 2008, 05:02 PM Post #49 |
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Sweet Capner, the sermon was the opening post. Edited by Banty Hen, Aug 30 2008, 05:07 PM.
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| DaveLovesJesus | Sep 3 2008, 01:11 PM Post #50 |
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Yeah, I just brought it back up since I found the audio... God bless, DaveLovesJesus |
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| sweetcapner | Sep 15 2009, 02:21 AM Post #51 |
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Wow awesome dream. it is similar with my dream of rapture in few years ago. it is very powerful. I take it really serious. SC |
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| bassplayer | Sep 15 2009, 09:15 AM Post #52 |
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Those who believe in a pretribulation rapture need to carefullt research Emmanuel Lacunza and John Darby. Then see how often a pretribulation rapture was mentioned prior to the year 1812. You will find that the belief is in fact part of what Jesus warned about in Matthew 24:4. The belief in a pretribulation rapture will in fact cause many (most?) believers to fall away when it doesn't occur as planned. When World War III (not the Battle of Armageddon) occurs, and about two billion people die as a result, that's going to shake the faith of more than a few believers. The economic distress, of which we are just seeing the beginning, will lead the US into another world war in exactly the same way it did in the 1930s. Be prayerful and ready! The Lord will return only after the events described in Matthew 24:29 occur and not one minute before. Reread Matthew chapter 24 a couple of times and see if you can fit a pretribulation rapture into the THE LORD'S OWN WORDS there anywhere. |
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| kgreen20 | Sep 15 2009, 01:12 PM Post #53 |
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Uh, bassplayer, you keep trying to jab us pre-Tribbers with these comments--I could think of a few jabs in return. But I will follow the rules and save that debate for Bible Discussions. Please do the same, OK? |
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“God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel” | |
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| Israeli | Sep 15 2009, 02:53 PM Post #54 |
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Just some ideas.....more than one rapture? http://www.rapture-soon.net/The_Phased_Raptures.html |
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| gibby62 | Sep 15 2009, 02:58 PM Post #55 |
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I've heard of that theory before. That there are three harvests. It makes the most sense to me because God is not the author of confusion so...maybe He's talking about 2 or more distinctive and separate events. |
| Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Eph 6:11-12 | |
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| heluvsme | Sep 15 2009, 03:10 PM Post #56 |
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Israeli, that article is very thought provoking. I have always been a mid-Tribber, but it makes a whole lot of sense. My question is...if this were true~would all the children/babies be taken in the first rapture then? |
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| heluvsme | Sep 15 2009, 03:23 PM Post #57 |
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According to the owner of the website~only infants/babies of saved parents will go in the Rapture. QUOTE: 9. What will happen to infants and young children at the time of the rapture? The bestselling book Left Behind and the film by the same title depict all infants and young children being removed and raptured from the earth, including infants and children of unsaved people. Mothers were running around in panic crying out, "Where is my baby?", etc. But does the Bible really teach this? The rapture is when Christ comes to remove ("catch up" - 1 Thess. 4:16-17) the church (all true believers that are overcomers) from the earth. He will come to receive His bride and bring her to heaven. Thus, the rapture is for those "in Christ," those who are part of the body and bride of Christ. Infants and young children are not saved and they are not in Christ; nor are they part of the church. It would be wrong to point to a living infant and say, "That baby is saved and has eternal life and his sins are forgiven!" On the contrary, every baby is born in sin and every infant has a wicked sin nature (Rom. 5:12, Psalm 51:5; Job 14:4; Psalm 58:3). Babies are not saved and they do not possess eternal life. This is Biblically absurd. It would also be absurd to say that all the unsaved children around the world growing up in Hindu and Muslim and Buddhist homes are part of the church that is in Christ. Keep in mind that an infant that is a year old at the time of the rapture will be approximately 8 years old at the time when Christ returns to this earth to rule and reign, and thus will be certainly old enough to make a responsible decision for or against Christ at that time or even prior to that time. Jesus Christ will take infants and young children that belong to saved parents this is revealed in the Scriptures (see 1 Corinthians 7:14), it is unreasonable to suppose that God would not take infants and young children of the parents that will be raptured leaving them parentless and defenseless would be unfair and unjust. One thing we do know for sure is that God will do what is right (Gen. 18:25; Rom. 9:14). God is certainly far more concerned for every infant and young child (saved or unsaved) than we are. What kind of concept of God does the Left Behind book and film convey to the world when unsaved mothers are going around in deep panic crying, "Where's my baby?" It makes God look like a kidnapper! This gives Reformed men and others all the more reason to mock our "secret rapture theory" (as they call it). Let me make this clear, any parent taken in the rapture with a baby or child their baby or children will be taken with them, any parent that is not taken in the rapture their baby or children will not be taken. The only exception to this is if only one parent is taken and the other parent is left behind then the baby or child will be taken. Pageant Christian women don't worry God will not abort you baby he will remove it from your body and place it in your arms safe and sound. It is important to realize that the issue under discussion is not what happens to infants who die. Though it is not our purpose here to defend the doctrine of infant salvation, yet we are assured, based on Scripture, that they will be SAFE IN THE ARMS OF JESUS. The issue is this: What happens to infants that are alive at the time of the rapture? This is an entirely different question. The first fruits rapture is a blessing for true believers ONLY not a God given rite for anyone who has ever said the sinner's payer. The Bible make it clear to be worthy to receive this blessing you must overcome sin in your life. As a parent it's your place to make decisions for your children if you are found worthy to be with Jesus Christ then your young children will also be found worthy, if you are not found worthy then you children are unclean and not worthy to be with Jesus, remember the fate of your children at the time of the rapture depends on you. Think about it! The tribulation is a period of time when God's wrath will be put on display. It will be the most severe period of judgment the world has ever known. It will be similar to the plagues that fell on Egypt, only on a world-wide scale and more severe. It is helpful to think back through history on other occasions when God's judgment fell in order to see what happened to infants. Is it unthinkable that God should expose helpless infants to a terrible time of judgment? What about the babies in Jericho? Were they supernaturally delivered? What about the children of the kingdom of Bashan and the children of the kingdom of Heshbon (see Deut. 3:6)? In Egypt the firstborn of each household was slain from the palace of Pharoah and on down. In Bethlehem God allowed babies to be slain due to Herod's jealous rage (Matthew 2). Children often in Scripture and in life bear the consequences of their parents' unbelief. Is this principle going to be overthrown at the rapture? Unsaved moms going around and saying, "Where is my baby?" eliminates one of the horrors of that time of judgment-having your children suffer with you throughout that period. It undercuts one important reason to be saved-that is, for the sake of our children and other family members (Acts 16:31; 2:39; 1Cor. 7:14 etc.). Was not one of the rich man's worst torments in Hell (Hades) the fact that his brothers were going to join him (see Luke 16:27-31)? One of the greatest reasons to be saved is for the sake of family and friends that we may influence, that they may save themselves from this wicked generation. Cornelius is to be the example of us all, who called together his kinsman and friends to hear the gospel (Acts10:24). Why would God deliver infants and unborn of the unsaved just prior to the first half of the tribulation, which is much milder, and have other infants suffer in the last half which is more severe (Luke 21:23)? Why would God allow pregnant women to be ripped up in other historical judgments and do extraordinary things to avoid it in this last one (2 Kings 8:12; 2 Kings 15:16; Hosea 13:16; Amos 1:13; Isa. 13:15-18)? See also Deuteronomy 28:54-56 and Lamentations 2:20 for other examples of children suffering (being literally devoured) in historical judgments. The fact that people have experienced historical judgment does not automatically mean they have come under damnation. Moses is the classic refutation of this. He came under historical judgment which involved death, but certainly he was a saved man ( Hebrews 11: 24-26; Matt. 17:3-4). Are we to believe that all the infants that drowned in the flood are in hell because they experienced an historical judgment? Certainly not. Those who advocate that all babies throughout the world will be raptured might reason in this way: Since infant salvation is true, then infant rapture must also be true. The rapture of infants of the unsaved is a very bold extrapolation on no Biblical grounds and seems an unwarranted sensationalist device for creating a dramatic effect in a book or film. The real horror is not babies disappearing, but remaining to grow up in those awful times. "Woe unto them with child and to them that give suck in those days" (the tribulation) (Matthew 24:19). Consider the message our Lord gave to the women of Jerusalem who were bewailing Him on His way to the cross. "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us [compare Hosea 10:8 and Rev. 6:16]. For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?" (Luke 23:28-31). If what God has done in the past is a indication of what He will do in the last great historical judgment, then this passage has great bearing. Children suffered greatly in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD which is a prototype of the last great judgment. "But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people (Luke 21:23). This passage is significant because Luke seems to connect the sufferings in 70AD with end time events in the future at the return of Christ. The future tribulation will be a time of special suffering for those who are pregnant and for those who have small children who are nursing. The days of Noah are parallel to the days just prior to Christ's coming to earth (Luke 17:26; Matt. 24:36ff). Certainly the unsaved babies of Noah's day did not escape the terrible judgment that came upon the entire world (and the fetuses did not escape either). They all drowned. I am not commenting on the eternal destiny of any of these children, but the historical judgments in this life certainly are experienced by them. Why would the judgments of the tribulation be any different than those of the past? It seems far more in line with Biblical teaching to suggest that infants of unsaved parents at the time of the rapture will enter the tribulation along with their parents, and with their parents will face whatever those frightful days will bring. If an infant should suffer physical death during the horrors of the tribulation period, God will take care of this person based on His abundant mercy and the work of Christ on the cross. The benefits of Christ's cross-work (justification, etc.) are applied to this person at the time of death and not before. http://www.rapture-soon.net/Answers_About_The_Rapture.html |
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| bassplayer | Sep 15 2009, 04:30 PM Post #58 |
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Emmanuel Lacunza is the author of confusion. I believed it too - until i read my bible. |
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| bassplayer | Sep 15 2009, 04:32 PM Post #59 |
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Doesn't that "phased raptures" mythology belong under bible study also? Oh wait, that isn't in the bible. |
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| Israeli | Sep 15 2009, 04:51 PM Post #60 |
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The Phased rapture theory from "Rapture-Soon" I posted is the first time I myself had ever heard of it. I thought it was interesting in light of the theme of the thread. It is not mainstream belief, no. |
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